[My Dream] Tithing? “No, it’s a Holy Spirit thing!!”

The Biblical basis for Holy-Spirit-led giving is in my article: The Day that Tithing Ended — To Now Be Led By the Holy Spirit

– –

I had this dream a little more than 20 years ago [~1989].

There was an open area between 3rd and 4th Avenues in downtown Anchorage, Alaska (where the Sunshine Plaza is) where a former elder of Abbott Loop Christian Center (ALCC and now called Abbott Loop Community Church) was speaking to a large crowd of people with over a PA system about tithing.

He was giving the reasons why, one by one — one of which is the claim that tithing was in effect before the law.

I was at the edge of the crowd, partly leaping while waiving my arms, trying to get their attention, saying loudly, “No, it’s a Holy Spirit thing!” Every time the speaker would give a point, this was my response.

Then I realized that the only way people would listen to me is if I wrote a book on tithing.

And the dream ended.

* * *

In 1999, I was given a prophecy about writing books, explained here:Intro: “Let Us Be ONE”

The head of the event had watched the prophet give me the prophecy (which was also a dream that he had), and asked me if I had ever felt led to write books. I shared with him my downtown-Anchorage-tithing dream….

When I did receive the “Let Us Be ONE” prophecy, which I think was supposed to be a published book, this small part was on tithing. In the new covenant, we are to be led by the Holy Spirit, which fulfills and supersedes the old covenant:

Let Us Be ONE, Part 8 of 33

10/3/01

Tithing or the Carriage Driver?

Give sheep a rest from all those things they do. Don’t put burdens on them.

Tithing is not Biblical. Tithing is from another era, before I gave My Son, before I died so you could be free. A new way, a better way has come, and it will give you life.

Churches are dead, living for themselves. Unity has not occurred. Get up and pray. Do not faint, and I will give you life.

Give by the Spirit’s desires. He will tell you what to do and who to minister to. The Holy Spirit is your friend. We are ONE, and We are in you, giving you life as you obey.

Do not be afraid of My leading. The problem with many is sin. Sin separates, and sin destroys the yoke.

The carriage must have a driver. Most drive themselves, unaware of My presence, unaware that I want to lead.

Related:

Let Us Be ONE: Table of Contents

The Day that Tithing Ended — To Now Be Led By the Holy Spirit

Russell Earl Kelly, Ph.D.: Tithing is Not a Christian Doctrine

Russell Earl Kelly, Ph.D.: Where in the Bible Were Tithes Abolished?

Russell Kelly: REASONS TO OPPOSE N.T. TITHING

Russell Kelly: TITHERS’ MATTHEW 5:17 PROBLEM

Russell Kelly, Ph.D.: Reply to Jim Feeney, Ph.D. on Tithing

Many Pastors Still Teach Old Covenant, Pre-Pentecost Tithing—Not Spirit-Led Giving

Tithing or the Carriage Driver? [From the Let Us Be ONE prophecy]

[video] Creflo Dollar: “Pay Tithes or get SHOT!”

David Bercot CD teaching: What The Early Christians Believed About Tithing and Fasting? “You might be surprised to know…”

Teaching tithing keeps the little (and the big) children from coming to Jesus where they can have life!

All of my Tithing or Spirit-led posts

Baruch: “Not only is DECEPTION of the church possible, it was PROPHESIED TO HAPPEN!” — Jesus said “IN THE LAST DAYS THE MAJORITY WILL BE DECEIVED, take heed that it doesn’t happen to you” — “FALSE TEACHERS are actually SPEAKING SPELLS with the words of their FALSE DOCTRINES!”

[video] Creflo Dollar: “Pay Tithes or get SHOT!”

“Pay Tithes or get SHOT!”–Creflo Dollar

Uploaded by seedsofgrace on Jan 12, 2010

Prosperity teachers are getting bolder and bolder these days.

Related:

The Day that Tithing Ended — To Now Be Led By the Holy Spirit

Russell Earl Kelly, Ph.D.: Tithing is Not a Christian Doctrine

Russell Earl Kelly, Ph.D.: Where in the Bible Were Tithes Abolished?

Russell Kelly: REASONS TO OPPOSE N.T. TITHING

Russell Kelly: TITHERS’ MATTHEW 5:17 PROBLEM

Many Pastors Still Teach Old Covenant, Pre-Pentecost Tithing—Not Spirit-Led Giving

Tithing or the Carriage Driver? [From the Let Us Be ONE prophecy]

David Bercot CD teaching: What The Early Christians Believed About Tithing and Fasting? “You might be surprised to know…”

Teaching tithing keeps the little (and the big) children from coming to Jesus where they can have life!

Russell Kelly, Ph.D.: Reply to Jim Feeney, Ph.D. on Tithing

From:russkellyphd.blogspot.com…

Thursday, July 15, 2010

Reply to Jim Feeney, PHD

Review of Pastor Jim Feeney, Ph.D. by Russell E Kelly, Ph. D.

FEENEY: Acts 20:33 [The apostle Paul said] I have not coveted anyone’s silver or gold.

KELLY: You missed the point. In 3 years at Ephesus Paul had not asked for ONE PENNEY of support. Not only had he been totally self-supporting but he also supported those in his group. He very definitely was not asking for offerings –much less tithes!

FEENEY: It is never our intent at South Valley Church to covet your finances.

KELLY: In Acts 20:29-35 Paul commanded church elders to work and care for the needy in their churches. He quoted Jesus to back up his point

FEENEY: But there is an area of finances that we do covet — that is, that the Lord receive his tithe.

KELLY: There is not a single text after Calvary for the Church to tithe. In the OT the Levites and priests received the first tithe.

FEENEY: Leviticus 27:30, 32 A tithe of everything from the land…BELONGS TO THE LORD… The tenth (ten percent) of our gross increase belongs to the Lord.

KELLY: The text defines HOLY tithes as only food from inside God’s HOLY land which God had miraculously increased. Tithes could not come from what man produced, from Gentiles or from outside Israel.

FEENEY: Wealthy Abraham, the first great patriarch of Israel, gave tithes centuries before Moses’ Law (Genesis 14).

KELLY: Why did Abraham tithe pagan spoils of war? The Bible does not say that God commanded it or that he gave it freely. In the context of 14:21 he was obeying the law of the land which REQUIRED tithes of spoils of war to one’s local king-priest.

FEENEY: Poor Jacob, the father of the twelve tribes of Israel, gave the tithe, also before the Law — Genesis 28:22 “And of all that you give me I will give you a TENTH.”

KELLY: Quote the entire text. This was Jacob the supplanter telling God what to do as part of a freewill vow. His tithe was not a holy tithe of the law.

FEENEY: In the Law that God gave through Moses to God’s people, there were clear commandments to give tithes —

KELLY: Only to Old Covenant national Israel. And Israel was commanded NOT to share its covenant with the Gentiles.

FEENEY: Leviticus 27:30, 32 A tithe of everything from the land…belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the Lord. … The entire tithe of the herd and flock — every tenth animal … — will be holy to the Lord.

KELLY: Only FOOD increased from inside God’s HOLY land of Israel. Tithes could not come from defiled pagan land.

FEENEY: Ten lambs born? They gave the Lord one. Ten bushels of wheat harvested? They gave the Lord one. They tithed — that is, they gave ten percent — on the “gross” increase.

KELLY: “They” were farmers and herdsmen who lived inside Israel. “They” were not Gentiles or craftsmen.

FEENEY: My tithe “belongs [not to me, but] to the Lord.”

KELLY: Unless your are an Old Covenant Hebrew living inside Israel and producing food, then YOU cannot tithe. You may give 10% of your income, but that is not a true biblical tithe.

FEENEY: 1,500 years after Moses received the Law, Jesus REAFFIRMED in His day the validity of tithing:

Matthew 23:23 Woe to you, teachers of the Law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! YOU GIVE A TENTH of your spices — mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law — justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, WITHOUT NEGLECTING THE FORMER.

KELLY: Jesus was living under the jurisdiction of the Law and was discussing MATTERS OF THE LAW. The tithe went to the Levites and not to Jesus. Jesus could not tell his Jewish or Gentile disciples to tithe to him because it would have been sin to do so. Mt 23:23 is still Old Covenant before Calvary (Gal 4-5).

FEENEY: Later in the New Testament, in 1 Corinthians, ch. 9, the apostle Paul teaches on the financial support of the work of God and uses commands from Moses’ Law as guidelines — 1 Corinthians 9:8

KELLY: This would have been the perfect time to clearly teach on tithing and Paul did not.

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FEENEY: “Doesn’t the Law say the SAME thing?” (referring to how the priests lived on the tithes and offerings). Paul brought the principle of the Levitical tithe — “the SAME thing” — over to the support of New Testament ministry.

KELLY: The argument is self defeating because it would force the church to copy “IN THE SAME WAY” ALL of the types of support of the Levitical system and not merely tithing. The “principle” from 9:7 to 9:14 is that each vocation has its own principles of support. The Christian principle is “grace and faith” – not law.

FEENEY: Should Christians tithe? The words of both Jesus and Paul seem clearly to bring tithing into New Testament times.

KELLY: No. Christians cannot tithe even if they wanted to do so. And the tithing STATUTE of Numbers 18 required Levitical tithe-recipients to forfeit property ownership. That is ignored too.

FEENEY: In the history of the New Testament Church since the first century, biblical tithing has been commonly, although not universally, taught and practiced.

KELLY: There is no record of any kind of tithing taught in the early church for at least 200 years after Calvary and even Cyprian’s attempt failed. Tithing did not become legally enforced in the Church for over 700 years. Even then it was only food off church-owned property.

FEENEY: In fact, tithing was a common religious practice in many nations in the ancient world.

KELLY: This proves that pagans tithed spoils of war before Abraham was born. They also worshipped idols and sacrificed children. Being old and common does not make something eternal and moral.

FEENEY: 2 Chronicles 31:12 Then they FAITHFULLY brought in the contributions, tithes and dedicated gifts.

KELLY: Because the king had erroneously told them to bring it to Jerusalem it rotted in the streets. Read 31:15-19 where it was re-shipped back to the Levitical cities.

FEENEY: Tithing is an indicator of our FAITHFULNESS. It’s a weekly, semimonthly, or monthly opportunity to demonstrate to God your faithfulness and commitment to His work on earth.

KELLY: Texts? NT giving is: freewill, generous, sacrificial, joyful, not by commandment and motivated by love for God and lost souls (2 Cor 8 and 9).

FEENEY: Giving our “tenth” is an indicator of our GENEROSITY. And God takes notice of the attitude of generosity: “God loves a cheerful giver” (2 Corinthians 9:7).

KELLY: Tithes were cold hard law and must be given by food producers inside Israel whether they desired to or not.

FEENEY: Numbers 18:21 I give to the LEVITES all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance IN RETURN FOR THE WORK THEY DO while serving at the Tent of Meeting.

KELLY: The Church does not obey a single tithing command found in Numbers 18. Levites, who received the first whole tithe, were NOT the ministering priests; they were the servants to the priests.

FEENEY: Biblical tithing allows God-called ministers to devote themselves fully to the Lord’s work.

KELLY: The Bible neither endorses nor discusses whether gospel workers should be full time.

FEENEY: Levites/priests in the Old Testament, fivefold ministers (apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers) in the New Testament.

KELLY: No. Modern Jews do not tithe because there is no temple or priesthood. Levites vaguely correspond to unpaid ushers, deacons, choir, musicians, etc. All NT believers are priests. Gospel workers more closely follow the example of OT prophets who were either self-supporting or lived off freewill offerings.

FEENEY: Malachi 3:8-10 “Will a man ROB GOD? Yet you rob me.” But you ask, ‘How do we rob you?’ “In TITHES AND OFFERINGS. (9)You are under a curse — the whole nation of you — because you are robbing me.

KELLY: Malachi is addressed to Old Covenant Israel under the Law. According to Malachi 1:6; 2:1; 2:17 and Neh 13:5-10, “every priest in the nation” was stealing from God by keeping the best for themselves. Also, no born again adopted child of God can be cursed (Gal 3:10-13).

FEENEY: (10) Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house.

KELLY: Only Levites and priests were required to do this per Neh 10:38-39.The people were commanded to bring their tithe to the Levitical cities per Neh 10:37b.

FEENEY: Test me in this,” says the LORD Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.

KELLY: The whole law was a test –not merely tithing. Obey all to be blessed; break one to be cursed. Gal 3:10-13.

FEENEY: 6. Why do I believe in tithing (and giving offerings also)? I wouldn’t want to take a chance on God considering me a ROBBER!

KELLY: Robbers accept something which only belonged to OT Levites and priests. You rob God if you do not obey all the tithing law of Numbers 18 and own property.

FEENEY: 7. Why do I believe in tithing? Because God says He wants His “house” to be ABUNDANTLY supplied.

KELLY: The early church did not even have its own buildings legally until after AD325.

FEENEY: Why tithe? Because God says if I am faithful in tithes and offerings, He will open the windows of heaven and pour me out abundant blessings.

KELLY: God cannot and will not bless New Covenant believers because of their obedience to annulled Old Covenant conditional promises (Heb 7:5, 12, 18). Only “successful tithers” are paraded before the church pulpit while most that are not blessed sit quietly and wonder why they are cursed even after tithing.

FEENEY: Proverbs 3:9-10, KJV Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: [10] So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.

KELLY: Firstfruits and tithes are never the same thing in the Bible. Firstfruits are very small token offerings per Deu 26:1-4; Neh 10:35-37a, etc, etc, etc.

Posted by Russell Earl Kelly

Related:

The Day that Tithing Ended — To Now Be Led By the Holy Spirit

[My Dream] Tithing? “No, it’s a Holy Spirit thing!!”

Russell Earl Kelly, Ph.D.: Tithing is Not a Christian Doctrine

Many Pastors Still Teach Old Covenant, Pre-Pentecost Tithing—Not Spirit-Led Giving

Tithing or the Carriage Driver?

David Bercot CD teaching: What The Early Christians Believed About Tithing and Fasting? “You might be surprised to know…”

Teaching tithing keeps the little (and the big) children from coming to Jesus where they can have life!

All of my Tithing or Spirit-led posts

Russell Kelly: REASONS TO OPPOSE N.T. TITHING

From:russkellyphd.blogspot.com…

REASONS TO OPPOSE NT TITHING

REASONS AGAINST NT TITHING
From Essay By Russell E Kelly, PHD
www.tithng-russkelly.com
Supporting texts with essay

1. NOT NEW COVENANT: New Covenant giving principles are far superior and more inclusive.
2. NOT DEFINED BIBLICALLY: The definition of holy tithes is only food from inside Israel which God had miraculously increased. Tithes could not come from what man increased, from Gentiles or from outside Israel.
3. NOT MONEY: Although money was required for sanctuary worship, money was never a tithe-able item.
4. NOT FROM OUTSIDE ISRAEL: Abram’s tithe was in obedience to the law of the land, was only pagan spoils of war and he gave the 90% to the king of Sodom.
5. NOT UNIVERSAL MINIMUM: In the Old Covenant only food producers inside Israel were required to begin at 10%.
6. NOT FOR PRIESTS: The OT Levitical tithe went to the servants of the priests who equate to ushers, deacons, choir, musicians, etc.
7. NOT FOR PROPERTY OWNERS: Under the Law, those who received the first Levitical tithe were not allowed to own property and were required to kill anybody attempting to enter the sanctuary.
8. NOT HOLY: The tithe was only holy if it came from inside Israel. It was only holy as part of the Old Covenant to support its priesthood.
9. NOT FIRSTFRUITS: The tithe and firstfruits were never the same thing. Tithes were tenth-fruits. Firstfruits were very small token offerings.
10. NOT 10%: There were 3 tithes totaling 23% plus a 10% tithe to the king.
11. NOT FROM THE POOR: The poor did not tithe. They received much of a 2nd festival tithe and all of a 3rd third year poor tithe.
12. NOT FOR WORSHIP ONLY: Levites also worked as political employees of the king in secular affairs.
13. NOT TO THE TEMPLE: The people brought tithes to the Levitical cities. The Temple was too far away to feed 98% of the Levites and priests.
14. NOT FROM MALACHI: Malachi was only for Old Covenant Israel whose priests were guilty of stealing the best tithes they had vowed to God.
15. NOT TAUGHT BY JESUS TO THE CHURCH: Matthew 23:23 is a condemnation of enforcers of the Law as “matters of the law.” It was illegal to teach tithes to Jesus from Jews or Gentiles.
16. NOT FOR NT PRIESTS: The OT priesthood and Temple have been replaced by the priesthood of every believer.
17. NOT NT STOREHOUSE: The OT Temple has not been replaced by the so-called storehouse of the church building. Buildings were not legal for almost 300 years after Calvary.
18. NOT A MORAL LAW: OT tithes were part of the worship ordinances which ended at Calvary for Hebrews. The Church never was under the Old Covenant Law.
19. NOT FOR GOSPEL WORKER SUPPORT: The New Covenant neither commands nor condemns full time gospel workers.
20. NOT SUPPORTED BY CHURCH HISTORY: No early church father suggested tithing for over 200 years. It did not become enforceable for over 700 years. Most U. S. churches did not teach tithing until around 1895.
21. NOT MORAL HERMENEUTIC: Tithing was not repeated to the church in terms of the New Covenant after Calvary.

Posted by Russell Earl Kelly

Related:

The Day that Tithing Ended — To Now Be Led By the Holy Spirit

Russell Earl Kelly, Ph.D.: Tithing is Not a Christian Doctrine

Many Pastors Still Teach Old Covenant, Pre-Pentecost Tithing—Not Spirit-Led Giving

Tithing or the Carriage Driver?

David Bercot CD teaching: What The Early Christians Believed About Tithing and Fasting? “You might be surprised to know…”

Teaching tithing keeps the little (and the big) children from coming to Jesus where they can have life!

All of my Tithing or Spirit-led posts

Russell Kelly: TITHERS’ MATTHEW 5:17 PROBLEM

From: russkellyphd.blogspot.com…

TITHERS’ MATTHEW 5:17 PROBLEM

“EVEN IF” MATTHEW 5:17 MEANS THAT NONE OF THE OLD COVENANT LAW HAS ENDED —-
such still does not validate tithing of money to gospel workers because —1. The Law defines tithes as only food from inside God’s holy land of Israel which He had miraculously increased (Lev 27:30-34).
2. The Law does not accept tithes from what man increased or from outside Israel (Lev 27:30-34).
3. The Law commands that the first whole Levitical tithe be given to the Levites servants of the priests (Num 18:21-24).
4. The Law commands the Levites to give one tenth of the tithe they receive to the priests (Num 18:25-28).
5. The Law requires OT priests to kill anybody attempting to enter the sanctuary (Num 18:7, 22).
6. The Law requires those who receive Levitical tithes to forfeit property ownership and inheritance (Num 18:20, 23).
7. The Law requires a second tithe (20% total) to be eaten in the streets of Jerusalem during the 3 annual feasts (Deu 14:22-26).
8. The Law requires a third tithe every third year to be kept in the homes for the poor (total 23%) (Deu 14:28-29).
9. The Law would not permit Gentiles to tithe either to Jesus or to the Temple system (Deu 7:2).
10. The Law’s application did not allow money with images to enter the Temple –thus the money-changers (Mt 22:20-21). 

THEREFORE appealing to the Law to justify tithing among New Covenant Gentile Christians still does not justify a changed definition and application of tithing.

Posted by Russell Earl Kelly

Related:

The Day that Tithing Ended — To Now Be Led By the Holy Spirit

Russell Earl Kelly, Ph.D.: Tithing is Not a Christian Doctrine

Many Pastors Still Teach Old Covenant, Pre-Pentecost Tithing—Not Spirit-Led Giving

Tithing or the Carriage Driver?

David Bercot CD teaching: What The Early Christians Believed About Tithing and Fasting? “You might be surprised to know…”

Teaching tithing keeps the little (and the big) children from coming to Jesus where they can have life!

All of my Tithing or Spirit-led posts

Russell Earl Kelly, Ph.D.: Where in the Bible Were Tithes Abolished?

From: tithing-russkelly.com

Where in the Bible Were Tithes Abolished?

1. WHO #1: The Levitical servants to the priests who received the first whole tithe have been abolished. See Numbers 18:21-24. Modern equivalents to the Levites are unpaid ushers, deacons, choir, musicians, etc.

2. WHO #2: OT priests who received a tenth of the tithe (only 1 per cent) have been abolished. See Num 18:25-28 and Neh 10:38.

3. WHAT: The definition of tithes as only food miraculously increased by God from inside His holy land of Israel has been abolished and replaced with the false unbiblical definition of income. See Leviticus 27:30-34 and 14 other texts which describe the contents of the tithe. Yet money was common in Genesis.

Entire Article Here

Related:

The Day that Tithing Ended — To Now Be Led By the Holy Spirit

Russell Earl Kelly, Ph.D.: Tithing is Not a Christian Doctrine

Many Pastors Still Teach Old Covenant, Pre-Pentecost Tithing—Not Spirit-Led Giving

Tithing or the Carriage Driver?

David Bercot CD teaching: What The Early Christians Believed About Tithing and Fasting? “You might be surprised to know…”

Teaching tithing keeps the little (and the big) children from coming to Jesus where they can have life!

All of my Tithing or Spirit-led posts

David Wilkerson: The Idolatry of Being ‘Successful’ — The Love of Money Really is the Root of *All* Evil

[Updated] I just thought of something. This is huge!

I’ve often wondered how the love of money can be the root of all evil. Consider this.

David Wilkerson here says:

Idolatry has to do with a much deeper heart issue. The number-one idol among God’s people isn’t adultery, pornography or alcohol. It’s a much more powerful lust. What is this idol? It’s a driving ambition for success. [or in other words: "the love of money"]

So what logically follows is that when people get rid of, excise the root of all evil, the love of money, then the other sins can’t be a bondage, because the ROOT of all evil is gone.

Remember:

“The love of money is the root of all evil.”

The love of money is an actual demonic stronghold that can only influence us if we give it a place.

And the consequences are losing our inheritance:

“It is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God.”

– Jesus (Mark 10:25)

And the kingdom of God means heaven, you all — just as it means eternal life in Galatians 5. See Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way | Who are the Children of God?

This doesn’t mean that all of us need to sell everything and give it to the poor; though, God is probably telling some to do exactly that. We need to do whatever is necessary so the love of money doesn’t have us — so we can walk free in LOVE.

“Those who are led by the Spirit are the children of God.” Paul in Romans 8:

12 So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if you live after the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are children of God. 15 For you didn’t receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God; 17 and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint heirs with Christ; if indeed we suffer with him, that we may also be glorified with him.

18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which will be revealed toward us. 19 For the creation waits with eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed.

So what is the Holy Spirit telling us — to be right-with-God-and-people, going-to-heaven children of God?

And pastors, why are you still teaching old covenant tithing, putting this weight of bondage on the people, keeping them from being led by the Holy Spirit in this important issue: what to do with their money?

Let’s be free from all of the weights that encumber — every willful sin that leads to death — by making sure we are free of the root of all evil — the love of money!

Let us be ONE in Him!

“Then the world will know” — Jesus heart-cry for us in John 17.

Jeff : )

——

From: World Challenge

IT BEGAN WITH REPENTANCE

by David Wilkerson | December 20, 2010

The church as we know it today began with repentance. When Peter preached the cross at Pentecost, thousands came to Christ. This new church was made up of one body, consisting of all races, filled with love for one another. Its corporate life was marked by evangelism, a spirit of sacrifice, even martyrdom.

The wonderful beginning reflects God’s word to Jeremiah: “I had planted thee a noble vine, wholly a right seed” (Jeremiah 2:21). Yet the Lord’s next words describe what often happens to such works: “How then art thou turned into the degenerate plant of a strange vine unto me?” (2:21). God was saying, “I planted you right. You were mine, bearing my name and nature. But now you’ve turned degenerate.”

What caused this degeneration in the church? It always has been, and will continue to be, idolatry. God is speaking of idolatry when he says to Jeremiah, “My people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit” (2:11).

Most Christian teaching today identifies an idol as anything that comes between God’s people and himself. Yet that’s only a partial description of idolatry.

Idolatry has to do with a much deeper heart issue. The number-one idol among God’s people isn’t adultery, pornography or alcohol. It’s a much more powerful lust. What is this idol? It’s a driving ambition for success. And it even has a doctrine to justify it.

The idolatry of being successful describes many in God’s house today. These people are upright, morally clean, full of good works. But they’ve set up an idol of ambition in their hearts, and they can’t be shaken from it.

God loves to bless his people. He wants his people to succeed in all they undertake honestly. But there is now a raging spirit in the land that is overtaking multitudes—this is the spirit of love for recognition and acquiring of things.

A man of the world said recently, “He who dies with the most toys—wins.” Tragically, Christians, too, are caught up in this pursuit.

How far we have strayed from the gospel of living through dying to self, ego, and worldly ambition.

David Bercot CD teaching: What The Early Christians Believed About Tithing and Fasting? “You might be surprised to know…”

“You might be surprised to know that the tithe,
as it’s taught in churches today,
is not something that anyone has taken from the New Testament
or from the early church.

It actually came into being after Constantine legalized Christianity.”

– David Bercot
Transcribed by Jeff Fenske from this disc

• • •

From:
ScrollPublishing.com…

CD: Tithing and Fasting

D. Bercot. What The Early Christians Believed About Tithing and Fasting. One of the questions we are most frequently asked is: “What did the early Christians believe about tithing? Did they teach literal tithing, or did they simply teach voluntary giving?” In this message, Bercot answers this question in depth. He also discusses what the primitive Christians believed about fasting—including how they fasted. 70 min. audio CD. No rating yet… Be the first to rate this product!

CD: Tithing and Fasting $4.95

Related:

The Day that Tithing Ended — To Now Be Led By the Holy Spirit

Russell Earl Kelly, Ph.D.: Tithing is Not a Christian Doctrine

Many Pastors Still Teach Old Covenant, Pre-Pentecost Tithing—Not Spirit-Led Giving

Tithing or the Carriage Driver?

Teaching tithing keeps the little (and the big) children from coming to Jesus where they can have life!

All of my Tithing or Spirit-led posts

Teaching tithing keeps the little (and the big) children from coming to Jesus where they can have life!

See at my personal blog:

One of my pastor friends died on Saturday —
and I’m not sure where he now is

—–

Related:

The Day that Tithing Ended — To Now Be Led By the Holy Spirit

Russell Earl Kelly, Ph.D.: Tithing is Not a Christian Doctrine

Many Pastors Still Teach Old Covenant, Pre-Pentecost Tithing—Not Spirit-Led Giving

Tithing or the Carriage Driver?

David Bercot CD teaching: What The Early Christians Believed About Tithing and Fasting? “You might be surprised to know…”

All of my Tithing or Spirit-led posts

“The Perfect Storm” by John Paul Jackson. What to expect in the next 10 years. To overcome, we must be right with each other: “You must have clean hands and not harmed others. And if you have, you must repent so that you can be clean” | My experience at Trinity

I know of John Paul Jackson from the Vineyard movement in the late ’80s and early ’90s. I experienced some of it firsthand during the first time I attended Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, an evangelical seminary in Chicago, and where I attended the Evanston Vineyard as well as a truly amazing Vineyard conference. Wow!

Unfortunately, this seemed to greatly anger some key theology and church history professors at the seminary, for many of us students could hardly talk about anything else and it flew in the face of what they were teaching (many of them believed and/or taught that the gifts of the Spirit had seceded, and they never seemed to talk about being Spirit-led, apparently reading Romans 8 (and many Bible and church history texts) through Baptist, etc. glasses).

Wayne Grudem was a noteworthy exception, who was actually part of the Vineyard movement. Thank you, Wayne!!! I remember him praying for me at the conference. And I think he paid a big price for standing up for what is right.

Seminary was one of the meanest places I’ve ever attended. Hate and anger was off the charts; though, the old guard tried to hide it. There is a reason why John and Chris Wimber died soon afterward. See my James-3-cursing posts under the ‘Christians’ Cursing People category. It was hard enough for me, and I was just a student. It was fierce!

This is one of the main reasons I haven’t yet responded to the Joe Schimmel post comments, as I had planned to. Most of the professors were Calvinists, and they mostly believed that God basically chooses who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. And they were of course among the chosen-for-heaven group. And the result of that doctrine, in my opinion made walking the campus sidewalks one of the most uncomfortable experiences in my life, especially when I attended the second time, after the Vineyard fire went out, and many of the professors and students knew where I stood.

The main leader of the movement, John Wimber, was also a professing Calvinist, and yet he desired to be Spirit-led, as was Wayne Grudem. So the belief in Calvinism doesn’t necessarily cause one to disbelieve in the Holy Spirit’s tangible, active functioning in our lives.

But it may be Calvinism that was in part the reason why the Vineyard movement basically ceased. Holiness died as a major theme, and what I call partysville set in. And this seemed to happen concurrent with John Wimber teaching tithing at Anaheim as the $giving$ standard. The old covenant law replaced being led by the Holy Spirit for giving. They had just built a new facility and needed to pay the huge loan.

I visited the new facility in Anaheim Vineyard (the mother ship) shortly after John Wimber taught what apparently was his first tithing-is-the-standard message. I saw it listed a few months back in the cassette tape message list. It was as if the Holy Spirit had left, compared to the presence of God that could be tangibly felt during my previous visit in the warehouse facility. And the Evanston Vineyard appeared to die also during this same period. Sad :(

And the music died too. They kept selling worship CDs for years thereafter, but the life was gone. And then Chris Wimber (head of music production) and his father, John suddenly died. That was a sad day for me.

John Wimber actually taught DWJD (Do What Jesus Did), and to a certain extent, many succeeded. Many also learned how to hear God’s voice; though, speaking in tongues was downplayed, which I believe is one of the greatest tools to battle the devil, including the James-3 curses ‘prayed’ our way by the modern-day Pharisees (basically). [See: A Gift that Will Set Many Free! (A Death Warrant is Out for Your Souls). It's time to listen to what the Holy Spirit is saying. He wants us to hear His voice, follow and be free]

I believe John and Chris were James-3 cursed to death. I saw and felt the hate and anger firsthand. I had to pray a lot just to make it myself, and I was just a student [During the second time I attended seminary, after the Vineyard movement had died and the campus was back to 'normal,' I had a dream in which I was told I wouldn't make it if I didn't pray 1 hour a day. So I took long prayer walks along the Des Plaines River]. Had there been more people praying in tongues, perhaps John and Chris would still be with us today to experience the move of God that John Paul Jackson and many others believe is soon to come.

[By the way, I should add that I also spent some time at Fuller Theological Seminary trying to more fully understand how John Wimber's signs and wonders class affected the campus. There was a much lighter, less oppressive and more joyous feel there.]

“Without holiness, no one will see God,” but with holiness we will! John Paul Jackson here talks about how we must be right with everyone in order to participate in this coming revival, saying: “you must have clean hands and not [have] harmed others. And if you have, you must repent so that you can be clean.”

This coming move will be awesome, and a combination of increased suffering and sound doctrine (finally) will I believe allow this coming move one that will never stop. Calvinism and tithing were factors that I believe caused the Vineyard revival cistern to no longer hold water. Sound doctrine, on the other hand, will create the groundwork in which God will move among us forevermore — which is why I spend so much effort trying to bring doctrinal balance into what is currently taught in Evangelicaldom today. Doctrine is key, and Jesus’ Greatest Two Commandments should be our main focus, with the Greatest Commandment greatest, but He also requires us to be right with all people, including the Iraqis, we slaughtered, by the way.

Most ‘Christian’ leaders still aren’t talking about this, but there should be repentance for supporting President Bush’s reverse-Christian policies. I believe this is one of the things that is keeping the move of God from happening. John Paul Jackson says that we must have clean hands in this coming move. Well then let’s do it, locally and internationally. God wants to move now, and we need Him now. This is serious. We’re allowing calamity to be needed in order for us to be willing to follow Christ.

Oh well, the main reason I started writing was to share this. I really appreciate John Paul Jackson’s point that what is coming is not the wrath of God, mainly. Rather, it is God withholding His hand of protection because His people are far away, and consequently, no longer salt and light. For example, I was told by God in my Let Us Be ONE prophecy that 9/11, specifically was a result of unforgiveness:

There is fear in My people—a fear that is great. You need not dismay, for I am with you. I am in everything you do, non-stop. I never cease.

Feel My hurt, imagine the pain, when you go your own way. I am in you, waiting. Let’s be one. Let’s do it.

There is another thing: a disaster has struck. People have been hurt, suicide bombings attacking towers. Why?

Do you not know that I lift My hand of protection when My people are far away?

We are one; we need not be far away. There is a way that seems right to a man. Disaster will result unless we forgive.

See the fallen; see them rise up and be refreshed as you give them a kiss, a holy kiss from above, pulling them up, giving them aid when they are down.

Let Me be in control; let Me lead your life. Do not be full of error, wondering this or that, going to and fro, not sure of which direction, being unable to forgive. Forgiveness is the key to repentance.

I forgave. I hung there and gave My life so you can have freedom. I hurt so you can walk in humility and be refreshed. You must take it and run, the precious gift of forgiveness, but not just for yourself, for others. Forgive and be free.

Jesus has wanted to protect us, to help us prosper in every way. But we left the way of loving everyone as much as we love ourselves, and now many non-Christians demonstrate more compassion than born-again ‘Christians.’

It’s not God’s fault; it’s ours. Those God sent to warn us weren’t listened to, and now we’re going to suffer, God told me, but it will also be a time of great joy and ease, spiritually:

“It doesn’t matter what the stock market will do, for holiness will abound and you will be ONE, living together, helping one another through the difficult times ahead.

It’s too late to reverse what’s been done, for My men have been rejected. There was a season.

Now is the time to overcome and get right with all those around, so you can be holy and set apart.

FORGIVENESS will reign from your hearts, and we will be together, embracing for eternity. You in Me and I in you. It should always be this way: resting, relaxed, righteousness ABOUNDING—your hearts GLAD! …

Your heart will swell with love, and it will be easy to remain in Me when others are on the boat with you.”

Jesus said “now is the time to overcome and get right with all those around.” If we’re ready spiritually, all in Christ, together as ONE (His heart-cry for us in John 17), then we’ll be spiritually ready for what is to come.

It’s too late to reverse what’s coming. We may be able to slow down and even minimize some of the terrible upcoming events, but because of our willful distance from God and His prophetic people, we are now on an irreversible course that we must have clean hands and pure hearts in order to overcome in what is to come.

Some will ride our coattails, but it takes brave mountaineers to be willing to pioneer the move now while the ease of obeying is still not here. It takes being willing to do the right thing, like humbling ourselves to those we’ve hurt and admit we’re wrong. Why wait till we see each other in the grocery store. That may never happen. Our own eternity is at stake (see Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way. It’s so clear), and we can help prepare the way, because “God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble.” The Remedy for James-3 Cursing & Partysville in Today’s Church is James 4.

“When we build it He will come.” What a glorious day that will be. And the revival will last and last this time….

Come on, Anchorage, are you ready?

Jeff Fenske : )

This is Part 1 of the Perfect Storm Prophecy given by John Paul Jackson of Streams Ministries. To download the PDF Document associated with “The Perfect Storm Series” please visit:

http://streamsministries.com [specifically here - ed.]

Blog With John Paul Jackson at:
http://blog.streamsministries.com

In Part 2 of “The Coming Perfect Storm” John Paul Jackson gives some prophetic insight to those who are intimately following the Lord as they grow closer to the Lord in hearing the voice of the Lord not only for themselves but for other people who need a solution to some of the problems that he has spoken about concerning the coming days ahead. The days ahead will not be easy but those who pray and seek the face of God will find much comfort and direction for their lives and the lives of others.

Related:

Sid Roth Interviews John Paul Jackson On the Coming Perfect Storm. “The Woes of 2012! The Woes of 2012!” And Beyond-Asbury, ‘ONE’-Happens, All-Get-Healed REVIVAL!!!!!!!

PROPHETIC BULLETIN August 2008: THE COMING PERFECT STORM
by John Paul Jackson

‘Let Us Be ONE’ Prophecy Continues 10/8/08: “It’s TOO LATE to REVERSE what’s been done for MY MEN have been REJECTED … Now is the Time to OVERCOME and GET RIGHT With ALL … FREEeeeeeeeeeeeee———DOM at last … Your HEART will SWELL with LOVE and it will be EASY to REMAIN In Me when others are On The BOAT With You”

Asbury Revival, 1970: “Dr. Kinlaw, I am a liar. Now what do I do?”

2012 forecast: Food riots, ghost malls, mob rule, terror. Trends chief [Gerald Celente] says people should brace for ‘the greatest depression.’ “This is the decline of empire America”

Regarding Tithing:

The Day that Tithing Ended — To Now Be Led By the Holy Spirit

Russell Earl Kelly, Ph.D.: Tithing is Not a Christian Doctrine

Many Pastors Still Teach Old Covenant, Pre-Pentecost Tithing—Not Spirit-Led Giving

Tithing or the Carriage Driver?

David Bercot CD teaching: What The Early Christians Believed About Tithing and Fasting? “You might be surprised to know…”

Teaching tithing keeps the little (and the big) children from coming to Jesus where they can have life!

All of my Tithing or Spirit-led posts