One Can Happen

September 15, 2008

[video] Bill Wiese’s 23 Minutes in Hell — What is it like in Hell? — “How bad could it be? You can’t breath; you can’t eat; you can’t sleep… you’re tormented. And all this you have to endure for eternity.”

Bill Wiese saw the searing flames of hell, felt total isolation, and experienced the putrid and rotting stench, deafening screams of agony, terrorizing demons, and finally, the strong hand of God lifting him out of the pit.

Wiese’s visit to the devil’s lair lasted just twenty-three minutes, but he returned with vivid details etched in his memory. Since this life-changing ordeal, he has spent the last seven years studying the Scriptures to find answers and has listed more than 150 Bible verses referencing hell.

* * *

“The scripture says in Romans 8:13, ‘if you live after the flesh you will die.’

And Jesus said, ‘if your eye offend thee, pluck it out. It’s better for you to enter into life maimed than enter into hellfire.’ And the word ‘offend’ means ’causes you to sin.’

So if you’re doing something. If you’re into pornography, if you’re just like you said, living with your girlfriend, if you’re living some compromised lifestyle, you don’t want to do that. He said that you’re in danger of hellfire.

So why would you want to take a chance and live like that.”

- Bill Wiese

Transcribed by Jeff Fenske

* * *

23 Minutes in Hell – Bill Wiese (Newest Version – Dec 2006) More Details

* * *

“How bad could it be? You can’t breath; you can’t eat; you can’t sleep. You burn. You’re tormented. And all this you have to endure for eternity.”

* * *

Related:

[book - audio - video] Mary K. Baxter: A Divine Revelation of Hell — “There is greater punishment for those who once preached the gospel and went back into sin, or for those who would not obey the call of God for their lives”

Jesus Mentions Hell and Destruction in 46 Verses! — We don’t need to know Greek to be able to clearly see hell is real and eternal. We better beware and tell others too!

12 New Testament Texts: HELL Is ETERNAL

[EXCELLENT video] Francis Chan and Preston Sprinkle: Erasing Hell — “He gets to define what love is, and not us.” “That means my sin is way worse than I could ever even imagine.” | ~”I think this whole concept of ‘how could God do this’ is woven into the fabric of our culture that says ‘how dare my dad tell me what I can and cannot do!’ We’ve lost the idea of authority, and it’s killing our culture.”

[Q&A] Francis Chan on Rob Bell and Hell: Why ‘ERASING HELL’ was Francis’ most difficult book and how it prompted him to repent for softening Jesus’ warnings — “WE IN AMERICA READ CERTAIN PASSAGES OVER AND OVER TO THE NEGLECT OF OTHERS, we start to believe that Jesus had a friendly tone all the time. … We have tried to block Hell out of our minds. Yet because it’s written about so often in Scripture, I think God does want it on the forefront.”

WHY HELL is INTEGRAL to THE GOSPEL — God declares himself to be compassionate and loving, but he also says, “Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished.” The Psalms declare that “Righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne.” — Why is it that when people think about hell they conclude God must be at fault and not themselves?

[10-minute video] Francis Chan: Erasing Hell — “Do you ever even consider the possibility that maybe the Creator’s sense of justice is actually more developed than yours? And that maybe His love and His mercy are perfect, and that you could be the one that is flawed. … We can’t afford to be wrong on this issue.”

Pastor DIES > goes to HELL because he HADN’T FORGIVEN his wife > AROSE from the dead almost 2 days later > tells story

(video) VET Tells Harrowing Tale of Military Life and NEAR DEATH Experiences — Encountered three demons, including ANGELINA-JOLIE-like, green, sticky LUST DEMON | Awesome ANGEL frees him — Mom praying! | Describes HELL: “HATE, HEAT & HOPELESSNESS”

Bill Wiese’s 23 Minutes in Hell — What is it like in Hell? — “How bad could it be? You can’t breath; you can’t eat; you can’t sleep… you’re tormented. And all this you have to endure for eternity.”

Hell Vision — the man in the vision represents ministers that preach false teachings and doctrines that lead His people astray. Many churches are the gateways to hell. ONLY A FEW could find their way out of the maze!

[music video] Degarmo and Key: Boycott Hell! — “We’ve gotta job to do; We’re runnin’ out of time to do it” — Dana Key 1953 – 2010

Hell Testimony — Kenneth Hagin’s Near Death Experience in 1933!

How Many Will Be in Heaven? How Many are Finding the WAY? Only 1 in 40 — 2.5%?!!

Hell is Real — There were some ministers there with their whole congregations gnashing their teeth on this minister: “You told us you had the truth. We followed you!”

[WordPOWER!] 2 Peter 3: BEWARE, in the LAST DAYS People Will Be WILLINGLY IGNORANT

Willful Ignorance: Actively Resisting the Truth & Truth-tellers

From Willful Ignorance through Cognitive Dissonance to “Could I Be Wrong?”

Baruch: “Not only is DECEPTION of the church possible, it WAS PROPHESIED TO HAPPEN!” — Jesus said “IN THE LAST DAYS THE MAJORITY WILL BE DECEIVED, take heed that it doesn’t happen to you” — “FALSE TEACHERS are actually SPEAKING SPELLS with the words of their FALSE DOCTRINES!”

My 1990 Key-to-Revival Prophecy: “There is might and there is power and there is glory, but it is being withheld until these relationships are made right, until we love our brother enough to…”

The Welsh Revival of 1904-05 by J. Edwin Orr: A Countrywide Asbury-like REVIVAL! The 4 Points: #1 Confess any known sin, and put any wrong done to man right again. #2 Put away any doubtful habit. #3 Obey the Spirit promptly. #4 Confess your faith publicly.

Asbury Revival, 1970: “‘Dr. Kinlaw, I am a liar. Now what do I do?’ … Three days later, she came to me radiant, and she said, ‘Dr. Kinlaw, I’m free!’”

The Didache (70-100 AD): Reconciliation was required to attend early church meetings! “How upside-down the ‘church’ is today.”

Benny Hester: “When God Ran” — God will RUN when we come back to Him!

Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way | Who are the Children of God?

[WordPower • Psalm 50] God Warns: “You have done these things, and I kept silent. You thought that I was just like you. … Now consider this…lest I tear you into pieces and there be none to deliver” (Hell?)

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41 Comments »

  1. Bill Wiese is a liar. He quotes numerous scriptures throughout his book, most of which are completely irrelevant to what he is talking about. He continually grabs short phrases and sentences out the Bible and quotes them without showing you the context of the phrase, which makes it easy for him to read his own assumptions into it (yes, I actually looked up every single scripture he cites). The majority of Christians in modern America do not diligently read their Bibles anymore, which makes them easy prey for this kind of con job. But his bizarre fantastic story outrightly contradicts the Bible many times. Luke 16:27-31 (the Lord’s parable of the rich man and Lazarus) says, “Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.” Our Lord Himself is very clear that if men reject the Gospel, and they refuse to listen to those who proclaim the Word of God, they will never be persuaded, even if someone came back from the dead to witness to them—something even more miraculous than Wiese’s alleged experience. Wiese himself specifically says, “One thing I was sure of: if what I had experienced was true, then I should be able to find proof of it in the Bible”; and, “I discovered that there are approximately 150 verses that reveal some aspect of hell, together confirming everything I had experienced.” However, he does not even attempt to back up many of his claims from Scripture, such as deformed reptilian demons and big rats and spiders in hell. He cites many scripture about demons attacking people on earth (as do some of the posters on this forum), but he never provides a shred of proof that demons can torment people in hell. And Wiese himself states that if he can’t prove it from the Bible, then it is not true. Please see my review of “23 Minutes in Hell” at http://www.geocities.com/spiritualliberty/23MinutesInHellReview.html.

    Comment by Louis — December 21, 2008 @ 9:17 am | Reply

    • Dear Louis,

      Bill Wiese is NOT the only one who had this experience. there are hundreds and many of them kids. are youi telling me they are all lying? Come on my friend……THINK, before YOU end up in that place.

      Comment by Louis — September 28, 2010 @ 10:37 pm | Reply

    • make sure your saved Louis….i wouldn’t trash other christians…not smart….pray for Bill don’t trash him.

      Comment by kevin — September 16, 2011 @ 3:36 pm | Reply

  2. Mr. Louis E. DeBoer,

    I think your thrashing of Bill Wiese here and at your site is disgusting—calling Bill a ‘liar.’

    You certainly don’t prove what you claim, and I don’t think you understand his heart. And he certainly doesn’t need to provide Scriptural proof for everything he witnessed.

    Also, you claim that Bill is in this to make a $buck$. I haven’t seen this at all. In fact, when I first wanted to learn more about his experience, his website wasn’t offering a thing to purchase for the longest time. I had to order a video from another source, of which no money went to Bill.

    From what I’ve seen, Bill and his wife are awesome! And that is why God chose Bill to go through this awful experience, because they are people of integrity.

    And I’d like to know what you mean by this point you make: “He cites many scripture about demons attacking people on earth (as do some of the posters on this forum).”

    Do you not believe that demons affect people physically here on earth? This is bizarre. They did in Jesus’ day, and still do, today.

    Jeff Fenske

    Comment by Jeff Fenske — December 23, 2008 @ 1:27 pm | Reply

  3. Hello, Jeff, thanks for sharing your views. First, I think you need to remember that it was Wiese himself who said he needs to provide Scriptural proof for everything he witnessed. In Wiese’s own words: “One thing I was sure of: if what I had experienced was true, then I should be able to find PROOF OF IT IN THE BIBLE” (p. 81); “I discovered that there are approximately 150 verses that reveal some aspect of hell, together confirming EVERYTHING I had experienced” (p. 81); and, “What SCRIPTURE states is all that matters” (p. 131). I am simply holding Wiese accountable for his own claims. And these are very serious claims he is making. He is claiming that the holy, inspired Word of God confirms “everything” he is telling us; and he is even claiming to have met Jesus Christ in person, and received a divine commission directly from the Son of God Himself. If someone is going to make such high claims, it should not be taken lightly. He should have enough reverence for God and His Word to make sure that everything he is saying is indeed supported by Scripture, especially when he is specifically claiming this himself. But Wiese is very careless and irresponsible in this regard, with all the statements he makes that are totally foreign to anything found in Scripture. And even worse, he is constantly twisting and distorting scriptures, trying to make them say things that they simply don’t say, in an attempt to make the Bible support his story, when it really doesn’t. I have documented this very thoroughly in my review of “23 Minutes in Hell,” and I have to wonder if you have actually read the whole review. When someone makes claims like Wiese has made, and then handles the Bible the way he does, he is handling the Word of God deceitfully, and he is a liar. “But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully” (2 Cor 4:2a).

    Wiese insists that he is not in it for the money, but then why does he not post his books on his website, as many Christian writers and churches are now doing? That way, thousands of people could read his “divinely authorized testimony” and get all their questions about hell answered, FOR FREE. If money truly is not his motivation, and his only concern is to get his “divinely authorized testimony” out to as many people as possible, then he would not have a problem doing this (in fact, he should have already done it long ago). But then again, if money was not his motivation, he never would have charged $13 a copy for his first book, or $15 a copy for his second book, in the first place. And on top of this, he’s also raking in $25 for the audio book, $10 for the DVD, etc. Just how much money is he making off this? My problem with Wiese here is that his actions contradict his own stated purpose for his ministry. I will have to take your word for it when you say that Wiese didn’t make any money off the particular video that you bought, but that doesn’t change the fact that he is charging a lot more than he needs to, and he is making a fortune off media sales. And the fact that he wasn’t initially taking media orders from his website is irrelevant. It doesn’t change the fact that he’s been taking a ton of money from retail store sales and their online sales all along.

    You claim that from what you’ve “seen,” Bill and his wife are “awesome” and they have “integrity.” But anyone can appear sincere and caring while they’re scamming people—that’s what con artists are all about. And we are warned numerous times in the Bible to beware of those who use religion to make money. And it is the Word of God that must determine how we evaluate their claims. Whether they appear sweet and sincere is not the issue. “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart” (Heb 4:12). “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them” (Isa 8:20).

    Also, I certainly do believe that demons affect people here on earth; in fact, I made that very clear in my review. (I am not exactly sure why you would think I don’t believe this?) My point was that you cannot use scriptures about demons attacking people on earth to try to support the old medieval superstition of demons tormenting people in hell. There is simply not one scripture in the entire Bible that supports this. And again, it was Wiese himself who said he should be able to prove EVERYTHING he saw from the Bible.

    By the way, how do you explain Luke 16:27-31?

    Louis

    P.S.: My apologies for the phrase “as do some of the posters on this forum”; I copied and pasted some of this from a post on another forum, and included this phrase by mistake.

    Comment by Louis — January 23, 2009 @ 3:41 am | Reply

  4. Louis,

    I’ve had a theory for awhile. You may be right that something isn’t quite right with Bill’s message, but I think it’s different than what you think. And maybe his marketing isn’t quite what it should be, but some of his prices are not very high: like $5 for the CD and $10 for the DVD. I think you’re exaggerating by what you say above.

    It would also probably be good if he put his book online as a free pdf, etc., but it’s not that cut and dry. This isn’t even always necessarily even the best thing to do to get the word out. For example, researchers claim to have discovered that if authors offer their books for free, then people tend to not take their work seriously, and may be less likely to even read it. This may not be always true, and it may vary quite a lot depending upon the subject. And I would think that when the crash hits, people will scramble for factual info that is available for free.

    I think this is something each author should pray about and do what the Holy Spirit is leading them to do. It may be different for different folks.

    In addition (you may disagree with me here because apparently you doubt Bill’s entire experience), it seems apparent to me that what Bill experienced took a big toll on his and his wife’s lives. They probably lost income during the recovery period. And it’s taken a lot of time and thought and effort to write his books, etc.. Is it unethical to recoup some of their losses by receiving money for what he’s produced from this? People don’t have to buy his material.

    I’m not sure where the balance is. Keith Green eventually decided to not charge anything, to only receive what the people chose to give. But the Bible doesn’t command this, but presents choices: “The workman is worthy of his hire” vs. Paul’s decisions to work for free and make tents to be his source of income. The main thing is to be led by the Spirit, being submitted to Christ even in our finances.

    Louis, you make such a big deal how Bill says he needs to prove the details of his experience by what the Bible says, but the Bible doesn’t say we have to have Biblical proof for what we experience. The Bible is finite, whereas the universe is infinite. There is no way the Bible can even mention much of what happens. So I think it’s unwise for Bill to set himself up like this, and it’s unwise and unfair for you to hold him accountable for this unbiblical litmus test. Let’s be biblical.

    I also agree that Bill takes some scriptures out of context, but the jewel of Bill’s message is not his scriptures, it’s his experience, of which much is supported by scripture. But it doesn’t need to be. The main thing is that experiences cannot be disproven by scripture and be legitimate. And yet we have some proof.

    I just posted [WordPower — Psalm 50] God Warns: “You have done these things, and I kept silent. You thought that I was just like you. … Now consider this…lest I tear you into pieces and there be none to deliver”

    Isn’t this what happened to Bill? Torn into pieces in a place of no escape? Though he was rescued, so he could warn us.

    And even in this old covenant, who would go there? People who would site and speak slander against their brother. Does this sound familiar? It should. You may want to read what the Bible really says about who goes to heaven: Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way. You may be surprised.

    Okay, this is where I think it’s possible (I could be totally wrong) that Bill could be confused. Is it possible that the reason Bill didn’t remember himself as being a going-to-heaven Christian while in hell is because Bill wouldn’t have gone to heaven, but would have ended up in this place, had he died right then? Maybe (I could be totally wrong, again) he actually did have an o.b.e.. I haven’t listened to the message for a long time. I don’t remember what his wife saw, whether she saw his body while he could have been out of it, or after the experience?

    In his theology, which is apparently different than what he said above http://www.soulchoiceministries.org/faq3.html, it would have been impossible for him to go anywhere but heaven, but the Bible clearly teaches that the way is indeed narrow, as Jesus said. Few find it, and few are.

    It’s possible that he was right enough with his neighbors and with God to enter heaven, but few are, unless they believe holiness is required, and apparently he doesn’t.

    So I think this is a sobering message for unbelievers and believers—for all of us. We could end up in this place if we’re not really careful to be led by the Holy Spirit. For they are the sons of God (Rom. 8). They have crucified the flesh (Gal. 5), and are walking holy, in white. Their names will not be removed from the Book of Life (Rev. 3:1-5). All others will be tormented for eternity. And those who consider themselves to be teachers will get a stricter judgment.

    This is serious. It’s time to repent!

    May we be holy, before it’s too late.

    It’s time to read the Bible again to see what it really says about who really are God’s sons and daughters—free at last!

    We need to be really careful!!!

    jeff

    Comment by Jeff Fenske — January 24, 2009 @ 9:24 pm | Reply

  5. Hi, Jeff,

    As Christians, we are to reverence God’s holy Word as the foundation of our faith (2 Tim 3:15-17). And we are to “earnestly contend for the faith” (Jude 1:3). When we see others abusing and twisting the Bible to their own ends, and handling the Word of God deceitfully, we are not to stand idly by like nothing’s wrong; and we certainly should not support what they are doing. This is not “slander”; it is our responsibility as Christians to oppose those who distort the Word of God. Also, it appears that we have a fundamental disagreement about salvation itself. You heavily emphasize the idea that “holiness” is required to go heaven. But the whole reason for Jesus Christ coming to die on the Cross for us was to pay the penalty for our sins, in our place. And we are saved by faith in Him and what he did for us on that Cross. This is truly salvation by grace (Eph 2:8-9). We are now saved because we are clothed with the very righteousness of Christ Himself. If we need to attain salvation by keeping God’s law, then there was no point in Christ dying for our sins, and we have nullified the grace of God. “I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain” (Gal 2:21). There are literally hundreds of scriptures proving that Christ has paid the penalty for our sins as the final, complete, perfect Sacrifice (Heb 9:12,26,28, 10:10), and that our justification before God comes by faith in Christ. When God’s children backslide and disobey, He will chasten them to correct them, but they are still His children, and nothing can separate us from His love (Rom 8:38-39). There are many accounts in the Bible of even the greatest believers sinning and failing (Abraham, Samson, David, Peter, and many more). This is the whole reason for the Lord’s chastening of His children—to bring His wayward, backsliding child back into His will. In fact, Scripture plainly declares that if we are not chastened by God, we are not His children! “For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons” (Heb 12:6-8). You say that those who slander will not go to heaven, but in all honesty, Jeff, can you actually say that you never say anything wrong about anyone else? That you never gossip even just a little? That you never say something negative about another person that wasn’t called for? Just how “holy” do you think you have to be to get yourself into heaven? Are you allowed just a little bit of gossip and slander? Once a month perhaps? Where do you draw the line? Have you considered James 2:10? “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.” The way is narrow because there is only one Way and one Savior, Jesus Christ (Acts 4:12), not because we have to keep our lifestyle at a certain level of holiness to get to heaven. It takes time for every Christian to “grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” (2 Pet 3:18). And many true believers still go through many times of sinfulness and carnality, and this is abundantly clear in the Scriptures; in fact, this is the whole reason for the Lord’s chastening in His children’s lives.

    It is difficult to determine exactly where Wiese stands when it comes to the Gospel and salvation. In his video at spiritlessons.com, he says, “I believe I’m saved. Not by good works, but by faith, by trusting in You.” But in the video on your webpage here, he says that if you’re living a “compromised lifestyle,” especially concerning sexual immorality, you’re going to hell (in which case Samson and David are probably both in hell). This is a serious problem with Wiese’s whole “testimony”—his inconsistent, incompetent handling of the Scriptures, as well as his intentional distortion and abuse of the Scriptures. Remember, Jeff, that God has magnified his Word above all else (Psalm 138:2). When he sends his prophets, apostles, and ministers, he sends them to preach His WORD to the world. It is the great truth of His Word that saves souls and changes lives. God does not use men who are woefully unprepared to teach His Word (as Wiese is), and He most certainly does not use men who willfully distort His Word (as Wiese most definitely does). And Wiese does not merely make an occasional minor mistake. He distorts and misquotes the Bible numerous times for the specific purpose of trying to make it look like the Bible proves his story, when it doesn’t prove it at all. This is completely inexcusable for a man who claims to have been chosen by God for such a special ministry. Again, I have documented this thoroughly in my 50-page review of Wiese’s of book, and you do not seem to be willing to address these issues. You claim that God chose Wiese because of his “integrity,” but how do you know whether Wiese has integrity? Would a man of integrity constantly distort and misquote God’s holy Word, just to promote his own story? Since God honors His own Word so highly, would He choose a man who handles His Word the way Wiese does? A man who you admit is “confused”? You yourself have admitted that he takes scriptures out of context. I also listed many scriptures that directly contradict Wiese’s story, and you have not addressed these. One example I gave you was Luke 16:27-31, but you do not appear to have an answer. This is the third time I have reminded you of this passage, and I hope that you will give me a straight answer in your next post. You do agree that we shouldn’t be contradicting the Word of God, do you not? Didn’t you say yourself, “Let’s be biblical”?

    Psalm 50 is actually another good example of Wiese’s mishandling of the Scriptures, and it is unfortunate that you cannot see through what he is doing here. Psalm 50 has absolutely nothing to do with hell whatsoever, and it is completely irrelevant to Wiese’s story. Psalm 50 is a warning about God’s EARTHLY judgments coming upon the wicked on EARTH. He warns them about rejecting His instruction, stealing, adultery, an evil tongue, and slander (verses 16-20), and tells them that He will “reprove” them (verse 21). To reprove someone is to rebuke and correct them to bring them to repentance. This again is a warning of God’s judgment that is about to come upon the wicked on earth if they don’t repent, as we see many times throughout the Old Testament. This is the context of the warning, “Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces.” This passage is not saying anything at all about hell, but Wiese tries to turn it into a passage about hell, just to make it support his own wild story, when it does not support his story in any way. You are trying to dismiss Wiese’s claims of all this extensive scriptural support for his story as “unwise” or foolish, implying that it’s not really a big deal. But what he is doing is DISHONEST, Jeff. Time and time again, he tries to make God’s holy Word say things that it doesn’t say at all, to support the FALSE CLAIM that the Bible proves his story. What does this tell us about Wiese’s “integrity”?

    I have to say, Jeff, that I find some of your statements here to be very strange and confusing. You wrote that “It’s possible that he was right enough with his neighbors and with God to enter heaven, but few are, unless they believe holiness is required, and apparently he doesn’t.” First of all, I strongly disagree that we have to be “right with our neighbors” to enter heaven. Never does the Bible say that we have to have all our human relationships in order to get ourselves into heaven. In that case, who could ever have any assurance of eternal life? Secondly, I am having a lot of difficulty deciphering what you mean here. You seem to be saying that in order to enter heaven, we have to believe that “holiness is required.” But then you go on to say that apparently Wiese doesn’t believe this. It almost sounds like you’re saying Wiese might not be saved??? I assume I must be misunderstanding you here, since obviously you are a supporter of Wiese. Perhaps you could clarify your meaning here?

    Another statement I am having trouble understanding is this: “Is it possible that the reason Bill didn’t remember himself as being a going-to-heaven Christian while in hell is because Bill wouldn’t have gone to heaven, but would have ended up in this place, had he died right then?” Honestly, Jeff, this sounds downright bizarre. Can you seriously be saying that if Wiese had died during this experience, he would have been doomed to remain in hell forever, EVEN THOUGH HE’S ACTUALLY A CHRISTIAN, and had been since 1970??? What does this say about the love and justice of God? And how is this actually relevant to Wiese’s claim that he didn’t remember being a Christian, and the numerous Scriptures that contradict this claim?

    You also say, “This is where I think it’s possible (I could be totally wrong) that Bill could be confused.” But remember, Jeff, that Wiese claims to have received a divine commission directly from the Son of God in person. He claims to be acting on the very authority of Jesus Christ. He does not have the luxury of being “confused.” A man who has been given such a high commission cannot afford to be “confused”—not when he is supposedly directly representing the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. Do you seriously believe that Jesus Christ, God Almighty in human form, would actually give a divine commission in person to someone who is so confused concerning His Word? Isn’t the Gospel way too vitally important?

    Regarding the issue of all the money Wiese is making off this, you say that it “seems apparent” that it took a toll on him, and he “probably” lost income during the “recovery process.” Not only is this pure speculation on your part, it is irrelevant to the issue. There is no solid reason to assume that there were actually any “losses” to “recoup.” Besides, Wiese and his wife were already successful in real estate. It’s not like they were hurting for money. And now they’re charging hard-working struggling folks far more than they really need to for their books and media, and they’re making a fortune in the process. They are not just “recouping”—they are getting rich. I have some experience in publishing and I can tell you that small run of just 1,000 books of 300+ pages each only costs about 3 dollars and change per copy. To mass produce a short 160-page book like Wiese’s would be much less per copy. He is making a huge profit. I also find it incredible that you would make a statement like “People don’t have to buy his material.” First of all, whether or not people have to buy his book has nothing to do with Wiese’s motivation and whether or not he is in it for the money. Secondly, Wiese claims to have a testimony of the utmost importance that was commissioned by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself in person, in order to reach as many lost souls as possible. And Wiese’s story is recorded IN HIS BOOK. This is supposedly a book that is extremely important for people to read, which is exactly what most of Wiese’s supporters are saying. You say that “People don’t have to buy his material,” but what about all the people he’s supposed to reach with his story?

    Finally, you said that it took a lot of time and thought and effort to write his books. I haven’t read his second book, but I would totally disagree with this statement concerning “23 Minutes in Hell.” This is a short book (only about 160 pages) and very poorly written. His story sounds wild, bizarre, and contrived (especially his story about Jesus flying him around the world because he always wanted to be an astronaut), and his handling of the Scriptures is terribly sloppy. Anyone can grab a concordance and rattle off a list of scriptures that happen to mention words like “dungeon,” “bars,” “destroyer,” etc., but this proves absolutely nothing and really doesn’t take any serious effort or study. I cover all this in my review, and it is quite apparent that you haven’t actually read it yet. Perhaps you should actually read what I have written before you call it “disgusting”?

    Looking forward to your next post, Jeff.

    Louis

    Comment by Louis — January 29, 2009 @ 4:08 am | Reply

  6. Dear Louis,

    I appreciate your detailed rebuttal. I will write a response soon. In the meantime, you are right that you and I differ greatly on our interpretation of who goes to heaven. I believe the number one reason for the fall of the church in America and the fall of America, itself, is because of the false salvation message that is commonly taught.

    Being born-again, receiving what Jesus did for us on the cross, is just the start. The New Testament then says in many places who will enter and who will not, but these texts are mostly ignored today, to our peril — and sadly, to our nation’s peril as well.

    Please, I invite you to check out what I’ve written on this crucially important subject that hardly anyone thoroughly studies on their own, to make sure that what they’ve been taught is true.

    I’d be very happy if you would read and perhaps comment on what I say in this hopefully clear and concise overview on what the Bible really does teach: Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way http://onecanhappen.wordpress.com/2008/01/14/who-goes-to-heaven-scriptures. You may be interested in comment #8 of this article too, which I wrote recently.

    Also, I’ve posted over 20 articles and videos on this subject in the “Who Goes to Heaven” category in the “select category” menu in the upper right of every page.

    You may be particularly interested in: “The CHIEF PILLAR of Eternal Security (OSAS) Toppled!” http://onecanhappen.wordpress.com/2007/12/04/the-chief-pillar-of-eternal-security-osas-falls

    If you’re an audio/visual guy at all, there are a few videos that also easily refute OSAS; though, they don’t state clearly who then does go to heaven, which I do in my Who-Goes-to-Heaven… article, which no one has yet refuted [I don't think it can be]; though, it’s been up for a year and is one of my most visited posts at ONEcanhappen, overall.

    I’ll write my detailed to response to your comment soon.

    God bless!

    Jeff : )

    Comment by Jeff Fenske — January 30, 2009 @ 9:32 pm | Reply

  7. Louis,

    Okay, I’ve rolled up my sleeves, and I’m ready to get to work on this. I appreciate you taking the time to comment so thoroughly. Your comment is included in its entirety (indented).

    Hi, Jeff,

    As Christians, we are to reverence God’s holy Word as the foundation of our faith (2 Tim 3:15-17). And we are to “earnestly contend for the faith” (Jude 1:3). When we see others abusing and twisting the Bible to their own ends, and handling the Word of God deceitfully, we are not to stand idly by like nothing’s wrong; and we certainly should not support what they are doing. This is not “slander”; it is our responsibility as Christians to oppose those who distort the Word of God.

    The definition of slander is: “the act or offense of saying something false or malicious that damages somebody’s reputation.” When you say flat out that Bill Weise is a liar, implying that he’s deceitful, “abusing and twisting the Bible to [his] own end,” Yikes! Saying something that isn’t true is much different than speaking falsehood intentionally to deceive. I do see evidence that Bill takes scriptures out of context, but I don’t see evidence of deceit or intentional twisting. Without that evidence, how can you rightfully say he’s lying?

    Most pastors distort the scriptures, especially when it comes to the salvation doctrine, but I don’t think most are doing it on purpose. Most are just teaching what they were taught. They sure are quick to skip over scriptures that challenge their conclusions though.

    In regards to the tithing doctrine (another false doctrine still taught), I would think that most who insist that old covenant tithing still applies today may in fact know better, because proof to the contrary has been out for awhile. It’s a done-deal. But many pastors don’t want to hear it because they think it hits their pocketbook, but I don’t think it really would if they preached the true gospel. Tithing is one of the doctrines that destroys churches and keeps people from truly being led by the Holy Spirit, without which we can’t be children of God — Paul.

    One person emailed me, using the word, ‘farce,’ to explain today’s Christianity. At first, I had a hard time calling what we have a farce, but the more I think of it, the more ‘farce’ seems to apply. And that’s why so many are ending up in the place of torment Bill describes.

    Also, it appears that we have a fundamental disagreement about salvation itself. You heavily emphasize the idea that “holiness” is required to go heaven. But the whole reason for Jesus Christ coming to die on the Cross for us was to pay the penalty for our sins, in our place. And we are saved by faith in Him and what he did for us on that Cross. This is truly salvation by grace (Eph 2:8-9). We are now saved because we are clothed with the very righteousness of Christ Himself. If we need to attain salvation by keeping God’s law, then there was no point in Christ dying for our sins, and we have nullified the grace of God.

    I never state we need to keep the law in order to go to heaven. That was OT. Now we have the Holy Spirit. Being led by and obeying the Holy Spirit supercedes keeping the law. We are no longer under the law if we are led by the Holy Spirit. Paul explains this in Galatians, and elsewhere, and so does Jesus.

    We are saved by grace, and grace teaches us to say ‘no’…. We can forfeit our salvation, have our names removed from the Book of Life (Rev. 3:1-6) if we don’t walk holy, to the degree required by scripture.

    We can’t willfully sin sins that lead to death after being born-again and expect to go to heaven (Heb. 10:26-39). It’s very clear, and there is no other logical way to read the texts.

    But for centuries, people (pastors, teachers, relatives, friends) have prayed that people would believe the false doctrines. James warns us of this in chapter 3, and calls this cursing, when ‘Christians’ wish evil things on people, which he says originates from the heart (v. 14). But few people understand their hearts, so James-3 cursing is rampant, today, and the deception is off the charts, which is what the Bible says would happen in the last days, right?

    So we need to watch our hearts. Few have really, squeaky clean hearts, which is probably the seat of the soul, and a place the Bible mentions about 1,000 times. It’s scientifically proven that the heart is more than a pump, and apparently the guts too. Sin and good things originate down there. “Create in me a clean heart, Oh God….” Where does lust come from according to what Jesus said in Mt. 5? But how many American ‘Christians’ even think of their heart?

    “I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain” (Gal 2:21). There are literally hundreds of scriptures proving that Christ has paid the penalty for our sins as the final, complete, perfect Sacrifice (Heb 9:12,26,28, 10:10)

    Why stop there? What about Heb. 10:26-39? Why do people so often stop before the writers lay down the bottom line? I see it over and over, again. The grace quotes are usually from Paul’s introductions, before he lays down the specifics. We need to read the entire texts….

    , and that our justification before God comes by faith in Christ. When God’s children backslide and disobey, He will chasten them to correct them, but they are still His children, and nothing can separate us from His love (Rom 8:38-39).

    What does the rest of Romans 8 say? Who does the promise apply to? Who are His children (v. 1, 4, 13-14, 17)? What does chapter 11 say? Context, please? It’s all in my “Who-Goes-to-Heaven-Scriptures…” article.

    There are many accounts in the Bible of even the greatest believers sinning and failing (Abraham, Samson, David, Peter, and many more). This is the whole reason for the Lord’s chastening of His children—to bring His wayward, backsliding child back into His will. In fact, Scripture plainly declares that if we are not chastened by God, we are not His children!

    “For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons” (Heb 12:6-8). You say that those who slander will not go to heaven, but in all honesty, Jeff, can you actually say that you never say anything wrong about anyone else? That you never gossip even just a little? That you never say something negative about another person that wasn’t called for?

    Please keep in mind the definition of the word, slander. We will be judged for every idle word, and we need to really work on not saying any, but gossip is often not slander.

    Personally, I’ve apologized to everyone I know that I should. And if someone else comes to mind that I’ve hurt over the years I’ll get right. Or if someone points out to me where I hurt them, I’ll be glad to apologize, admitting I was wrong, and ask them to forgive me, if they’re a believer.

    ~“When we leave our gift at the altar and remember that our brother has ought with us, leave your gift at the altar and” reconcile!! We need to be holy.

    Just how “holy” do you think you have to be to get yourself into heaven? Are you allowed just a little bit of gossip and slander? Once a month perhaps? Where do you draw the line? Have you considered James 2:10? “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”

    There you put gossip and slander together, again. There are sins that lead to death and sins that don’t. We better not be doing the former without repenting and getting it right. And we should work on the latter as well.

    And the more ‘Christians’ get right with each other, the stronger the body will be, and the easy it will be to overcome, partly because we’ve been hurt by each other, and it’s really hard when we’ve been hurt by fellow, born-again believers who should know better, especially when they’re in leadership, who are supposed to be ‘blameless,’ according to 1 Timothy and Titus.

    To me, ‘blameless’ must at least be living in the second list in Gal. 5, so that they’re at least going to heaven. But how many overseers really are?

    The way is narrow because there is only one Way and one Savior, Jesus Christ (Acts 4:12), not because we have to keep our lifestyle at a certain level of holiness to get to heaven. It takes time for every Christian to “grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” (2 Pet 3:18). And many true believers still go through many times of sinfulness and carnality, and this is abundantly clear in the Scriptures; in fact, this is the whole reason for the Lord’s chastening in His children’s lives.

    Jesus spoke of the way being narrow at the end of the Sermon on the Mount, which shows in many places how narrow the way now is. What God winked at He no longer will. Now we have to not lust in the heart, not hate our brother, not call our brother “fool.”

    The key is ‘willfully’ sinning, Hebrews 10:26-39. When we willfully sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth and having been ‘sanctified,’ there remains no more sacrifice for sin, but rather….

    That’s God’s word. Why don’t pastors teach this? Huh??

    It is difficult to determine exactly where Wiese stands when it comes to the Gospel and salvation. In his video at spiritlessons.com, he says, “I believe I’m saved. Not by good works, but by faith, by trusting in You.” But in the video on your webpage here, he says that if you’re living a “compromised lifestyle,” especially concerning sexual immorality, you’re going to hell (in which case Samson and David are probably both in hell).

    I mentioned Psalm 50 in the earlier comment. This was a Psalm of David, written after he sinned with Bathsheba. This Psalm was probably in part a warning to him that if he didn’t repent he would be torn into pieces with none to rescue. I think David repented, and Samson may have too.

    This is a serious problem with Wiese’s whole “testimony”—his inconsistent, incompetent handling of the Scriptures, as well as his intentional distortion and abuse of the Scriptures.

    I can go with ‘incompetent’ to a certain extent, but I have never thought this was an “intentional distortion.” How do you know? I don’t see intentional distortion at all in his teaching. And again, to me, the baby is his experience, not so much the scriptures he uses to back them up. It wouldn’t surprise me that God has actually called him to share his testimony, but maybe trying to prove everything through scriptures is not what God has called him to do, and this is where he may get in trouble. But this doesn’t nullify his testimony, and it’s not as bad as you say it is.

    Remember, Jeff, that God has magnified his Word above all else (Psalm 138:2). When he sends his prophets, apostles, and ministers, he sends them to preach His WORD to the world. It is the great truth of His Word that saves souls and changes lives. God does not use men who are woefully unprepared to teach His Word (as Wiese is), and He most certainly does not use men who willfully distort His Word (as Wiese most definitely does).

    How do you know that he’s “willfully distorting?” Isn’t this just an assumption on your part; though, you say it’s fact.

    And Wiese does not merely make an occasional minor mistake. He distorts and misquotes the Bible numerous times for the specific purpose of trying to make it look like the Bible proves his story, when it doesn’t prove it at all. This is completely inexcusable for a man who claims to have been chosen by God for such a special ministry. Again, I have documented this thoroughly in my 50-page review of Wiese’s of book, and you do not seem to be willing to address these issues. You claim that God chose Wiese because of his “integrity,” but how do you know whether Wiese has integrity? Would a man of integrity constantly distort and misquote God’s holy Word, just to promote his own story? Since God honors His own Word so highly, would He choose a man who handles His Word the way Wiese does?

    Like I said above, maybe God didn’t call him to teach so much, but mainly share.

    A man who you admit is “confused”? You yourself have admitted that he takes scriptures out of context. I also listed many scriptures that
    directly contradict Wiese’s story, and you have not addressed these. One example I gave you was Luke 16:27-31, but you do not appear to have an answer. This is the third time I have reminded you of this passage, and I hope that you will give me a straight answer in your next post. You do agree that we shouldn’t be contradicting the Word of God, do you not? Didn’t you say yourself, “Let’s be biblical”?

    Okay, here it is:

    27 “He said, ‘I ask you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house; 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, so they won’t also come into this place of torment.’ 29 “But Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets. Let them listen to them.’ 30 “He said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 “He said to him, ‘If they don’t listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if one rises from the dead.'”

    Before the Holy Spirit was given at Pentecost, people couldn’t even understand, hardly what Jesus said when he was with them. In this case, both Lazarus and the five brothers wouldn’t have the Holy Spirit to help them understand, lead them into all truth. Bill is born-again and many he speaks to are, and the Holy Spirit can also move to help others understand. A lot has changed since Pentecost.

    Psalm 50 is actually another good example of Wiese’s mishandling of the Scriptures, and it is unfortunate that you cannot see through what he is doing here. Psalm 50 has absolutely nothing to do with hell whatsoever, and it is completely irrelevant to Wiese’s story. Psalm 50 is a warning about God’s EARTHLY judgments coming upon the wicked on EARTH. He warns them about rejecting His instruction, stealing, adultery, an evil tongue, and slander (verses 16-20), and tells them that He will “reprove” them (verse 21). To reprove someone is to rebuke and correct them to bring them to repentance. This again is a warning of God’s judgment that is about to come upon the wicked on earth if they don’t repent, as we see many times throughout the Old Testament. This is the context of the warning, “Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces.” This passage is not saying anything at all about hell, but Wiese tries to turn it into a passage about hell, just to make it
    support his own wild story, when it does not support his story in any way.

    In my “Who-Goes-to-Heaven Scriptures…” article, I quote mostly from the NT, because we live in the NT era, post OT age. I like to keep it simple and clearcut, not involving a teaching during another covenant. But this text may be a cogent addition, someday, for in many ways it lines up with the NT lists, even using some of the same terminology. And the result in the NT if one sins in this way is hell. Why would one think the result would be earthly here? When God quickened this chapter to me, each time I would read it, I never thought of this warning as being earthly. This is subjective, though.

    More objectively, how many people that you see sinning like this are actually literally torn into pieces? Not too many, and people who aren’t doing this kind of thing get torn to pieces too, largely by American made weapons, dropped from the sky.

    The only way this could be more universally true would be on the other side, where it could happen consistently. Which is what I think happens. People get tormented in hell. And this is where there is “none to rescue” (also in this verse in Psalm 50).

    Also, I don’t see God as actually tearing people to pieces. He usually disallows it on earth. He allows us only to be tormented by demons so far (Mt. 18), so we won’t immediately die, but will learn to repent, partly to avoid the torment, which happens to people when they don’t forgive, so it’s happening to many to varying degrees. And this is why doctors can’t heal a significant number of cases. They were demon caused in Jesus’ day. Why not now?

    People curse people all the time, and God allows this until we learn how to forgive everyone, everywhere, 100% of the time from our entire heart. Which is something I still work on everyday, by the way.

    I really do think that Psalm 50 is referring to a place of torment after a person dies, where there is none to rescue—but I can’t prove this beyond the shadow of a doubt.

    Also, this isn’t written to the average Joe, the average ‘wicked.’ He’s talking to people who “have taken the covenant upon their lips,” and they “declare His statues.” He’s writing to people who claim to be His people, just like the ‘Christians’ who claim to be His people, today.

    You are trying to dismiss Wiese’s claims of all this extensive scriptural support for his story as “unwise” or foolish, implying that it’s not really a big deal. But what he is doing is DISHONEST, Jeff. Time and time again, he tries to make God’s holy Word say things that it doesn’t say at all, to support the FALSE CLAIM that the Bible proves his story. What does this tell us about Wiese’s “integrity”?

    I still don’t see any evidence of him being ‘dishonest,’ knowingly deceiving.

    I have to say, Jeff, that I find some of your statements here to be very strange and confusing. You wrote that “It’s possible that he was right enough with his neighbors and with God to enter heaven, but few are, unless they believe holiness is required, and apparently he doesn’t.” First of all, I strongly disagree that we have to be “right with our neighbors” to enter heaven. Never does the Bible say that we have to have all our human relationships in order to get ourselves into heaven. In that case, who could ever have any assurance of eternal life?

    We can be assured of having eternal life when we’re born-again and right with God and our neighbors to the degree required by scripture. From another perspective, we need to be peacemakers and be led by the Holy Spirit. These are the sons of God, the Bible says.

    And yet another: now the law is written on our hearts. And the 10 Commandments have become two: to love the Lord, our God with all of our heart, soul, mind and strength, and to love our neighbor as ourself. This fulfills the law.

    There isn’t one text that says we can lust, hate, lie, covet, slander, and etc. and still go to heaven. But there are many texts that say we can’t. Why are these ignored. OSAS is a myth, a doctrine of demons. And we’re spreading it around the world. We don’t need a fire in our tails to spread what we know (like I heard last Sunday). We need a revival, which is explained in the post: “What is Real Revival?” We need to get our own act together before we try to spread around what we don’t yet have.

    Secondly, I am having a lot of difficulty deciphering what you mean here. You seem to be saying that in order to enter heaven, we have to believe that “holiness is required.” But then you go on to say that apparently Wiese doesn’t believe this. It almost sounds like you’re saying Wiese might not be saved??? I assume I must be misunderstanding you here, since obviously you are a supporter of Wiese. Perhaps you could clarify your meaning here?

    I’m saying that is a possibility that Bill went to hell because that’s where he would have gone based upon his standing before God. Most ‘Christians’ who haven’t been taught the truth about who goes to heaven aren’t right enough with God and man to enter heaven.

    Another statement I am having trouble understanding is this: “Is it possible that the reason Bill didn’t remember himself as being a going-to-heaven Christian while in hell is because Bill wouldn’t have gone to heaven, but would have ended up in this place, had he died right then?” Honestly, Jeff, this sounds downright bizarre. Can you seriously be saying that if Wiese had died during this experience, he would have been doomed to remain in hell forever, EVEN THOUGH HE’S ACTUALLY A CHRISTIAN, and had been since 1970??? What does this say about the love and justice of God? And how is this actually relevant to Wiese’s claim that he didn’t remember being a Christian, and the numerous Scriptures that contradict this claim?

    It doesn’t matter how long we’ve been born-again, it matters if our names will continue to be written in the Book of Life after we’ve died (Rev. 3:1-6).

    I don’t know how to answer his lack of knowledge in hell of being a Christian on earth. It would be interesting to sit down and talk with him sometime and discuss who goes to heaven and all with him—to see if he thinks my theory could be possible, based upon what he remembers while in hell, etc..

    Again, this is just a theory that I think could be a possibility.

    You also say, “This is where I think it’s possible (I could be totally wrong) that Bill could be confused.” But remember, Jeff, that Wiese claims to have received a divine commission directly from the Son of God in person. He claims to be acting on the very authority of Jesus Christ. He does not have the luxury of being “confused.” A man who has been given such a high commission cannot afford to be “confused”—not when he is supposedly directly representing the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. Do you seriously believe that Jesus Christ, God Almighty in human form, would actually give a divine commission in person to someone who is so confused concerning His Word? Isn’t the Gospel way too vitally important?

    I don’t have any trouble believing that Jesus has commissioned Bill to go around telling his story. I don’t think God expects Bill to try to prove everything he experienced through scripture. This isn’t necessary, and it isn’t possible.

    His story is awesome, and doesn’t need scriptural back-up throughout.

    Regarding the issue of all the money Wiese is making off this, you say that it “seems apparent” that it took a toll on him, and he “probably” lost income during the “recovery process.” Not only is this pure speculation on your part, it is irrelevant to the issue. There is no solid reason to assume that there were actually any “losses” to “recoup.” Besides, Wiese and his wife were already successful in real estate. It’s not like they were hurting for money. And now they’re charging hard-working struggling folks far more than they really need to for their books and media, and they’re making a fortune in the process. They are not just “recouping”—they are getting rich. I have some experience in publishing and I can tell you that small run of just 1,000 books of 300+ pages each only costs about 3 dollars and change per copy. To mass produce a short 160-page book like Wiese’s would be much less per copy. He is making a huge profit. I also find it incredible that you would make a
    statement like “People don’t have to buy his material.” First of all, whether or not people have to buy his book has nothing to do with Wiese’s motivation and whether or not he is in it for the money. Secondly, Wiese claims to have a testimony of the utmost importance that was commissioned by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself in person, in order to reach as many lost souls as possible. And Wiese’s story is recorded IN HIS BOOK. This is supposedly a book that is extremely important for people to read, which is exactly what most of Wiese’s supporters are saying. You say that “People don’t have to buy his material,” but what about all the people he’s supposed to reach with his story?

    First, there are many ways to hear Bill’s story for free on the net. That’s how I first heard it, the entire 1-hour (or so) message, unedited. I don’t know if it’s there to read anywhere for free or not.

    Also, you’re not mentioning that I said something like perhaps Bill isn’t marketing this exactly like he should, but it’s not as bad as you said. And I don’t know exactly where the balance is. I may publish my “Let Us Be One” prophecy someday, once I write the commentary. But right now, it’s online free, and it will probably stay online for free.

    I’ve spent many tens of thousands of dollars getting educated in the things of God—and only God knows how much studying, prayer and thought during these 35 years—and I’m just now writing, and I still haven’t asked for or made a cent. If I sold a book at Amazon for $10 or $15 and didn’t have it online for free (which I likely would, but what if I didn’t), would you come after me too?

    What about all the mainstream guys who don’t offer anything for free and charge as much as Bill or more? Are you going after them?

    Why target Bill? It’s like the movie: “Kill Bill.” I don’t see why you’re targeting Bill when almost all evangelical authors do the same.

    Finally, you said that it took a lot of time and thought and effort to write his books. I haven’t read his second book, but I would totally disagree with this statement concerning “23 Minutes in Hell.” This is a short book (only about 160 pages) and very poorly written. His story sounds wild, bizarre, and contrived (especially his story about Jesus flying him around the world because he always wanted to be an astronaut), and his handling of the Scriptures is terribly sloppy. Anyone can grab a concordance and rattle off a list of scriptures that happen to mention words like “dungeon,” “bars,” “destroyer,” etc., but this proves absolutely nothing and really doesn’t take any serious effort or study. I cover all this in my review, and it is quite apparent that you haven’t actually read it yet. Perhaps you should actually read what I have written before you call it “disgusting”?

    “Quite apparent” that I haven’t read your book? So you’re calling me a liar too? I never said I read the entire book, but I read enough to see where you were going with it.

    I believe Bill when he says he was traumatized by the event. At this point, I have no reason to believe that Bill isn’t an honest man. I’ve gone through a lot of stuff in my life that I don’t share for the whole world to see. I don’t “rattle” anything “off” by just grabbing stuff here and there. I know you’re not accusing me of doing this, but I think I can partially relate to people who’ve gone through heavy things. They don’t just rattle this stuff off when they’re the real deal.

    I think Mary Kathryn Baxter is. Many others are. And I think Bill really went through what he said he did too. If he did, this is no picnic followed by speed writing and raking in the $dough$.

    He’s just now really getting his website going. Last I checked, people still couldn’t order online, but it looks like that’s coming. But how many years did it take him?? I don’t see any rattling going on here.

    The bottom line is we must be careful for in the same way we judge we’ll be judged. First, we have to get the plank out of our own eyes before we can see clearly enough to take them out of others. And we may have different kinds of pieces of wood than someone else. We may be strong in areas that we’re judging others in. But they may be strong in areas that we’re weak in.

    The goal is unity. The goal is ONE, being one with each other in Christ, as Jesus prayed we would be. Then the world will know.

    And I think Bill’s message is a powerful warning to those who think they are Christians but who are willfully sinning sins that really do lead to death.

    I really do think that the majority of ‘Christians’ I know could end up where Bill did, if we’re not careful and repent.

    This website is primarily written to ‘Christians,’ and that’s why it is here and not on my other site. I believe that ‘Christians’ are the main problem and solution (once we get our act together). And even my other site is largely geared to help people see what’s really going on so we can get our act together.

    I was hoping we could save America and have revival. Now, I believe it’s too late to save America. But we can still have revival in the midst of tribulation, which will help people turn to God and try to find out what went wrong. And I try to answer some of these questions in these two sites.

    Once saved, always saved (and its offshoots) is the greatest deception, but there are many other deceptions that the majority of evangelicals have swallowed, hook, line and now sinker.

    But as our country is falling down, we can be shining lights that will be impossible to extinguish.

    Pre-trib rapture can’t be proven either. And even if there was one, who would be right enough with God and their neighbor to go? There would be some traffic accidents as the true Christians would fly out of their cars, but not as many as the fictional writers claim.

    I think it’s a myth. It’s time to get right with God and others now so we’ll have the spiritual strength to overcome what’s coming down the pike, now that the most of the evangelicals supported mostly without question George W. for the last eight years, a Skull and Bonesman, just like his father and grandfather.

    Now, evangelicals are going to reap what they sowed. It may never again be a cake-walk here on earth, but if we learn how to walk in love and overcome sin and temptation, led by the Holy Spirit and ONE with each other, we can walk in peace and internal joy no matter what here on earth, and forever in heaven!!!

    What ya think, Louis?

    Freedom in Christ — always!!!

    Jeff : )

    Looking forward to your next post, Jeff.

    Louis

    Comment by Jeff Fenske — January 31, 2009 @ 9:50 pm | Reply

  8. Prophecy Plus: Bill Wiese 23 Minutes in Hell

    Wednesday, March 19, 2008

    I checked into Bill Wiese and his book, 23 Minutes in Hell. It only took a few minutes to discover that he has been involved in the Prophetic Movement for over a decade at the very least and works closely in ministry with Mike Bickle–one of Kansas City Prophets –and Bickle’s organization IHOP, Bickle not only is well known as a leader within prophetic circles but also heavily promotes mystical, contemplative spirituality.

    Wiese’ experience in hell was an “out of body experience”–a very coveted experience by those within prophetic circles. They
    teach each other how to have them. Out of body experiences, astral projection, are common among New Agers and Shamans–nothing new here–totally occult, although prophetic folk commonly reference Paul’s experience of being caught up to the third Heaven as a biblical basis for that particular occult experience.

    Much of Wiese’ experience is biblically questionable, suggesting that Satan rules in hell. The Bible teaches no such concept.

    Although Wiese references a lot of scripture in detailing his experience, anyone joining with him in ministry [by using / posting his testimony, etc.] would be leading people straight into the arms of the heretical, apostate Prophetic Movement which preaches another Jesus and another gospel, and is deceiving untold numbers of people into believing they are saved when
    in reality, they are not being drawn to the real Jesus, but to the signs and lying wonders which characterize prophetic ministry, and are adopting a “spirituality”–a form of godliness–which cannot save. It is frightening to think how many believers are experiencing paradigm shifts due to whoring after signs and lying wonders and are becoming part of the great falling away the Bible predicted would happen in these last days.

    In summary, my recommendation is to stay away from any and all promotion of Bill Wiese and his experience of being astrally projected into hell.

    Comment by Jack — March 20, 2009 @ 3:52 pm | Reply

  9. JC Masters: Why I Don’t Believe Bill Wiese Went To Hell

    Sunday, January 27, 2008

    Occasionally, my research for my upcoming book, “What the Hell? Simple Answers to Life’s Most Burning Questions”, takes me to
    the testimonies and personal experiences of others regarding Hell. Recently, I came across the book, “23 Minutes In Hell”, by
    Bill Wiese. Now, I don’t know Bill Wiese and I have nothing against the man. In fact, as a fello Christian, I am overjoyed that he is seeking to spread the gospel in his own way. However, after reading his book, cover to cover, I was left thinking that either the man was deceived, or was intentionally pushing an agenda. Not knowing him, as I said, I dare not conjecture which.

    The book speaks of him somehow being catapulted into a Dante’s Inferno type of Hell while, presumably, asleep in his bed. Now, if you are not familiar with Dante’s Inferno, it is a part of a larger poem written by a man named Dante Alighieri in the 14th century which greatly influenced the Church’s perception of Hell. Inferno, of course, was a fictitious poem, not having anything to do with Biblical Scripture, but was more about Dante’s political angst against some of his enemies at the time.

    Wiese borrows a significant amount of the descriptors in Inferno in his alleged trip to Hell. I don’t fault him for that, as it is the meat and drink of modern Christianity, however wrong it may be.

    There are, however, some very strange inconsistencies in Wiese’s story which require the observant reader to take notice. I will address them individually.

    #1. He claims to have gone to bed shortly before midnight on November 22, 1998 and was “catapulted OUT OF MY BED into the very pit of hell.” (page 2) Ok, so as you can see by his own testimony, he was in his bed at the time of his “departure” to hell, he says at 3:00 am. However his wife Annette says this on page 46. “I woke up to screams coming from DOWN THE HALLWAY. My first reaction was to look to my right to see if Bill was there beside me in bed. HE WASN’T.” Ok, so the million dollar question is, how did Bill get from being in his bed to laying on the living room floor if he was in Hell the whole time with no possibility to control his body in the meantime?

    #2. Annette continues on with this. “I turned to my left and looked at the digital clock, and noticed that it was 3:23 am. I got out of bed and WALKED down the hallway to the living room where I found Bill in a fetal position with his hands grasping at the sides of his head. His breathing was erratic, and he was screaming, “I feel like I’m going to die!” I thought he was having a heart attack.” I don’t know about you, but if someone I loved was in a fetal position on the floor, and their screams woke me up, I would RUN, not walk to wherever they were. Her testimony does not match what a prudent person would do under those circumstances, and the rest of her story is similarly unbelievable. She didn’t call 911 when she believed he was having a heart attack, even when he was screaming the entire time she was praying over him. No woman I have spoken to, even Christian ones, has agreed that they would have done the same under similar circumstances, knowing what Annette knew at the time she had awoken.

    #3. He claimed during his book, that he was unable to think of the Lord Jesus during his time in Hell because Jesus Himself prevented it. (page 37) There are two problems with that. First, how would he know that the demons in the prison cell were blaspheming against a God he didn’t know? (page 4) Second, in his alleged encounter with Jesus, all Jesus said was, “I kept it from you” but did not give an explanation. Wiese offered an explanation, but that didn’t come from Jesus.

    #4. Upon arrival to the prison cell initially, Wiese said he could not stand due to an inexplicable weakness, which apparently never got better. (page 2) However after getting soundly whupped on by 2 of the 4 giant demon captors, somehow with his chest ripped open and in the pitch blackness, he was able to stand up and walk away. He offered no explanation how he somehow “adjusted” to his predicament and got stronger, even as his circumstances got much much worse.

    #5. After escaping the prison cell and demonic tormentors, he said he was taken back there to get roughed up again. Then all of a sudden he was standing next to the pit of fire 10 miles away without any explanation as to how he was carried such a vast distance instantaneously, or how he managed to stand up after being nearly drawn and quartered. (page 14)

    #6. During his encounter with Jesus, he claimed that he arose from the bottom of the cavern and was rising in the air. Then suddenly Jesus appeared and he fell to His feet. How is that possible when both are floating through the air? What could he have fallen on?

    #7. His testimony, indeed the title of the book, indicates that he had been in Hell for 23 minutes, but clearly that couldn’t
    be the case because he claimed that Jesus took him out of Hell and into outer space, and then back to his home. That time between his departure from Hell and his arrival at home clearly would have eaten away some of those 23 minutes.

    #8. His “abduction” at 3:00 am – Now this may be picking nits, but why would Jesus take Bill to Hell at the tail end of what is referred to as the “Witching Hour”?

    #9. Finally, and this is perhaps the most damning to his story, but Scripture clearly states that folks don’t go to Hell and return back to Earth. In fact according to the Lazarus and rich man parable, it is strictly forbidden because nobody would believe the person anyway. Jesus WOULD NOT violate His own Word. And for Wiese to have actually gone to Hell would contradict
    God’s Word. This beats even the previously mentioned contradictions in Wiese’s story.

    So, that leaves us with the nagging question, why would Wiese experience this if he experienced it at all? Bear in mind that Wiese is a professed Christian since 1970 and has had 28 years to learn the Bible and Hell mythology as it pertains to Christianity today – prior to this event. I don’t think he hallucinated it, but he may have dreamed it, and he could have just made it up.

    If he dreamed it then he clearly was being deceived. I have no clue why he would make it up, other than to add mor validity to the Hell scare tactics that have produced recalcitrant and backsliding pseudo-converts throughout the ages.

    Does this mean that his book is entirely bad? No not really. He does make some standard Christian points that Jesus, not our own “goodness” or good works, is the way to Heaven. That’s the gospel in a nutshell, and fortunately Wiese does not waver from that point at any time. Does he use a substantial portion of his biblical references inappropriately or out of context?
    Yes, and that’s a very pervasive scourge in modern Christian writings that is incredibly annoying, not to mention dangerous.

    All that being said, I believe Bill Wiese to be an earnest Christian man who is doing all he can to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ to others in his own way. Do I believe his story? Absolutely not, it’s inconsistent as well as unbiblical. But I
    in no way doubt his faithfulness to Jesus of his commitment to spreading the Gospel.

    JC Masters

    Comment by Jack — March 20, 2009 @ 9:29 pm | Reply

  10. i have read your book 23mintues in hell i couldn’t have explained it any better but i have seen more than that on a daily bases. I think we have so much in common but yet i don’t have more to add to to your ordeal in hell. please feel free ot contact me via my email i can claify some of your unanswered questions .

    Comment by gloria munson — April 5, 2009 @ 6:12 am | Reply

  11. The Vision of CALVARY’S CROSS by Bobby Conner

    A man by the name of Bobby Conner was given a vision of the crucifixion of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    The following is the complete testimony of Bobby Conner:

    At Calvary’s Cross by Bobby Conner

    The warm sunlight was softly spilling through the window into my office as I forced my attention away from the sweet spring day. Sitting in my chair, I brought my focus back to my opened Bible and an all-too-clean notepad which were resting on the deep, rich polished desk. I was in the process of preparing preaching notes on the subject of the cross of Christ. I had spoken on this subject many times before, but now I deeply desired something much fresher. I was not prepared for what was about to happen. My tranquil setting was about to change in a radical way. Pushing my chair forward, getting closer to the Scripture and my note paper, I began to pray, asking the Spirit of God to make the message of the cross real. I did not want to use just a bunch of words. I wanted the cross to be more than a mere message. I longed for people to hear the Words of Life. I wanted it to be something powerful that would transform our lives. So I began my prayer from a hungry heart.

    Suddenly without warning, faster than the speed of light, I was no longer sitting comfortably at my study. I was being carried by the Spirit of God through time and space. As Paul stated in the Scriptures, if I was in the body or out of the body I do not know. Soon, I was set down in the busy streets of Jerusalem. I could hear the sounds of a mob of people. I could feel an evil excitement in the air that made my spirit very uncomfortable. I was standing in a great crowd of people. Looking into their faces, I noticed that some were filled with sincere sadness and others with an evil grin. The next thing I
    knew I was shoved aside by a big Roman soldier, who cursed at me and yelled, “Get out of the way!” Then I looked and saw what
    the crowd had been waiting for, Jesus bearing His cross. I could not believe my eyes. Never before had I seen such a terrible
    sight. His entire face was covered with clotted, dried blood from wounds caused by a crown of thorns, which looked more like razor-sharp spikes driven into His head. Each time His heart would beat, fresh dark blue-red blood would spurt between the spikes and thorns, running down His forehead and into His eyes, dripping to His chest and onto the dusty street. My mind was whirling. I thought, “This can’t be happening, this happened years before.” However, at that moment our eyes met, and I knew without a doubt, it was real. Somehow, I had been carried to the crucifixion!

    It was no dream; I was there.

    Stunned, I staggered alongside the crowd, too shocked to speak, watching as Jesus was stumbling under the weight of the heavy
    cross. The hot winds blowing dust from the street blew open the tears in His bloodstained clothes and I caught a glimpse of the wounds on His back and shoulders, deep, flesh-torn, gaping, open. For a long time we made our way up the steep path outside the city wall. At long last we came to the top of the Hill of the Skull. The mob stirred with excitement when the Lord was thrown down hard to the ground. Without a struggle He stretched out His arms. The air itself was so thick with the oppressing demon spirits that it was hard to breathe. The smell of blood and body fluids was so strong that I was choking: and I could smell the strong stinking aroma of some type of liquor, or cheap ale, coming from the soldiers. I heard the heavy
    thud of the hammer as it struck the spikes going into His hands and feet. The cross was lifted up very roughly and dropped in
    the hole. I heard a deep groan coming from the Lord’s throat, as the entire weight of His body came against the spikes. I will never forget the sounds, sights, and smells of this moment. It seemed as if time had stopped. I don’t know how long I was there; it seemed as if it were hours. This was a place of no mercy! Yet the most merciful act was being accomplished. I will never forget the paradox of feelings. The Sinless and Guiltless dying as one guilty. The Perfect being spoiled by the spear and ravaged by the cross. The Righteous dying for the rebellious. As I lifted my eyes to behold Christ on the cross, the pain upon His face was more than my heart could bear; all the strength left my legs, and I felt my body thud against the ground. I struggled to get to my knees. Lifting my eyes, I again forced myself to behold the Lamb. I know now the meaning of the prophet’s words, “And when we see Him, there is no beauty that we should desire Him” (Isaiah 53:2). I can testify that His face was more disfigured than any I have ever seen. The pain that Jesus went through was much more than the cross. It was
    beyond any human words to describe. His flesh was a pale blue as He hung suspended between Heaven and Earth making atonement for sinners such as I. At that moment I cannot begin to describe how horrible a sinner I knew I was. The words of the song came flooding into my heart, “When I survey the wondrous Cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gains I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride.” I could see the Lord as He struggled beneath the pain of the cross, and as He lifted His weight and breathed in to speak these words, “FATHER, FORGIVE THEM FOR THEY DON’T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING” (Luke 23:34).

    Later, I heard the most horrible cry come from the parched, swollen, bleeding lips of our Lord, this cry still rings in my ears to this very hour: “MY GOD! MY GOD! WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?” (Matthew 27:46). This question came from the very soul of
    the Son of God. For the very first time in all of eternity, the Father and the Son are separated. This is the very first time
    that Christ has ever referred to God other than Father. Why? Because now Christ has become what we are. He has taken upon Himself our sins. The Scripture states that God is of a purer eye than to look upon sin, so the Father turns His back on His Son, and Christ is forsaken by His Father. This is the pain that He had asked to be removed in the garden when He prayed, “LET THIS CUP PASS FROM ME” (Matthew 26:39). He could not bear to think of Himself being abandoned by His Father. At this moment Christ is not dying as the Son of God, but rather as a sinner. As this happened, His heart was crushed. As the Psalmist prophesied: “My heart is like wax, it has melted within Me” (Psalm 22:14). Then with a loud cry, Christ Jesus said, “FATHER INTO YOUR HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT” (Luke 23:46), and His lifeless head falls limp upon His chest. The entire Earth is spinning and shaking. There is this terrible darkness everywhere. I hear screams coming from the darkness, and suddenly I am aware that the cry is coming from my own lips. I am no longer at the foot of the cross, I am back in my office;
    but the cry and scream still echoes in my ears. My entire body is shaking and trembling.

    (The Vision Ends)

    RITUAL OR RELATIONSHIP
    I am not able to share all that I saw and experienced at this time. But I can tell you I will never be the same. And I am more sure now than ever before, the preaching of the cross is the power of God unto salvation. The Scripture states: “For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect” (1 Corinthians 1:17). The cross of Christ is not a trite trinket or some sentimental ceremonial jewelry, to be worn around our neck; but rather the cross of Christ is the very essence of the loving heart of Father God reaching out
    to fallen mankind. Mankind’s only hope of deliverance from the grasp and guilt of sin is the finished work of Christ upon the
    cross. God is not requesting man to embrace a mere ritual, but rather to enter into a lasting relationship. This can only be accomplished through the cross of Christ.

    THE CROSS WAS BY DIVINE DESIGN
    The Gospel is that, “Christ Jesus died for our sins according to the Scriptures; and that He was buried; and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures” (1 Corinthians 15:3-4). Notice the term “according to the Scriptures.” The sacrifice of Christ for our sin upon the cross was by divine design. The death of Christ upon the cross was neither accidental nor arbitrary. Jesus declared, “FOR THIS CAUSE I WAS BORN, AND FOR THIS CAUSE I HAVE COME INTO THE WORLD” (John 18:37). The gospels tell us that the Lord Jesus spoke of the cross before His death (see Matthew 10:38; Mark 10:21; Luke 14:27). The sacrifice of Christ upon the cross for sinful mankind is the greatest example of God’s love for us. The Scriptures declare, “Greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friend” (John 15:13). That is exactly what Jesus did for us. He willingly came into the world to give His life a ransom to redeem fallen man. Paul says: “Christ died for the ungodly, He demonstrates His own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:6-7). We are guilty and deserve the judgment of God, but God so loved us that He was willing to let His Son
    become sin for us, so that we, by accepting Him as our personal Lord and Savior, can be freed from sin’s punishment. None can
    fail to see that in the teaching of the New Testament, Christ is set forth as taking the place of the sinner in His death. The death of Jesus upon Calvary’s cross was vicarious, which means Christ took our place of death and punishment. Every blessing of salvation is imputed to the believer by the substitutionary death of Christ. “He who knew no sin was made to be sin on our behalf; that me might become the righteousness of God in Him” (2 Corinthians 5:21). The cross, and the preaching of the cross, is the very core, and center of Christianity. Jesus said, “And if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto Me” (John 12:32). May God help us to boldly proclaim the transforming message of the cross of Christ.

    by Bobby Conner

    This testimony of Bobby Conner, along with the testimonies of Bill Wiese and Mary K. Baxter – A Divine Revelation of Hell, and several other testimonies, can be found at the following website:

    http://www.divinerevelations.info

    Comment by Mark Anderson — April 19, 2009 @ 7:03 pm | Reply

  12. The Lord Jesus Christ died to save people from hell, not to give them a taste of it, as some sort of ”gift.” None of the great men of the Bible went to hell and only those who die in their sins will ever see it. (Although we all deserve it)
    You only need to read your Bible to know that this man never went to hell.
    Some people for some strange reason want to believe this man’s story, whether it goes against the word of God or not.
    If I tell people the Gospel, most will not listen, if I tell the same people a ghost story or that I left my body last night, they would gather around wanting more. Sadly this seems to be the case even amongst Christians.

    Comment by Rachel — May 21, 2009 @ 5:55 am | Reply

  13. I suppose it was inevitable that, with a bestselling book describing an author’s “90 Minutes in Heaven,” one would soon follow detailing a journey to hell. Sure enough, Bill Wiese follows Don Piper’s 90 Minutes in Heaven with his own 23 Minutes in Hell. And interestingly, if you visit Amazon.com you’ll see that you can get a deal if you buy both of these books together. Clearly they are being read and appreciated by the same audience.

    Wiese’s story is simple. One night, while sleeping, he was transported to hell. There God showed him hell in all its horror and terror. He was thrown into a barred cell, he was abused by demons, he was shown lakes of fire, and he saw people suffering torment. After a brief visit with Jesus, he was transported back to earth in order to tell people that Jesus is returning soon and to assure them that hell is a real place (and one that exists in the center of the earth, apparently). Wiese’s hell seems to be equally influenced by the works of Ray Comfort, Mary Baxter and Gary Larson. That is to say it is at times biblically accurate, at times patently unbiblical, and at times near-comical.

    There are many things that can be said about this book from the perspectives of literature and theology. I will focus on just one under each heading. In terms of literature, there is little that can be said. This book is just plain bad. It is poorly written and seems cobbled together. It is something of a chore to read, though it is blessedly short and, unlike hell, the punishment does not last for long. I have read worse, of course, but there is no doubt that this is not a well-written book.

    My foremost concern involves theology. And here I want to point to the error that also plagued Don Piper’s 90 Minutes in Heaven. It regards the necessity of such visitations. Don Piper travels the world now under the banner of “The Minister of Hope.” He brings hope by telling people that he has been to heaven and can attest that it is a real place. Bill Wiese now shares his message that hell is also real and is a real place (a really bad place). Yet in the Bible I find no reason to believe that God would want or need people to carry this kind of message based on their own experiences. God has given us the Bible precisely so we do not need such people! When a man travels around carrying a message like this one, he implicitly denies that the Bible is warning enough; his ministry indicates that he feels we need something more than “merely” the Bible in order to warn people of the joy to come to those who believe and the wrath to come for those who do not. These messengers, perhaps inadvertently, deny the uniqueness and the sufficiency of the Bible. If people will not believe the words of God as given in Scripture, why should or would they believe the fanciful words of a mere man?

    All this is not to say that 23 Minutes in Hell does not have any redeeming qualities. The author shares many things about hell that are true. He often quotes excellent teachers (and ones who would be less than thrilled, I’m sure, to see their names printed inside this book!). He does not downplay the horrific nature of hell, as do so many today, attempt to deny its reality. However, one thing that is conspicuous by its absence is any mention of hell being the presence of God in His wrath. Wiese describes it as a place where people are punished for not believing in Jesus; yet the punishments are inflicted by demons and fire rather than by God Himself. From the Bible it seems clear that God is the one who is active in hell and that He punishes both humans and demons. If Wiese does downplay the awfulness of hell, it would be right here.

    Like 90 Minutes in Heaven, this book is plagued with theological errors and, also like Piper’s effort, it does not deserve a place in anyone’s library. Take a pass on it!

    Comment by Matthew — May 26, 2009 @ 7:21 am | Reply

  14. Matthew,

    Thanks for commenting.

    I’m wondering what passages you are referring to in which it says that God directly punishes people in Hell, Himself, by His own hand, directly?

    Are you referring to Psalm 50, which I mention above?

    Matthew 24 could also be interpreted this way:

    48 But if that evil servant should say in his heart, ‘My lord is delaying his coming,’ 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the lord of that servant will come in a day when he doesn’t expect it, and in an hour when he doesn’t know it, 51 and will cut him in pieces, and appoint his portion with the hypocrites. There is where the weeping and grinding of teeth will be.

    But in the Bible when God says He does something, He often doesn’t do it directly by His hand. I would think that more often than not, people or spirits are the agents that carry out what He says He will do (at least when it comes to affecting people physically).

    Is this not the case throughout much of the Bible? Why would this be any different in Hell?

    And the testimonies of the many who have been to Hell all seem to agree that the demons do the tormenting.

    jeff

    Comment by Jeff Fenske — May 26, 2009 @ 7:51 am | Reply

  15. There is NO Scriptural support for many of Mr. Wiese’s claims. Wiese’s claims of enormous sized demons with giant jaws and huge teeth with claws sticking out simply aren’t taught in the Word of God. Making exaggerated claims concerning Hell only leads people to doubt and mock the Word of God. As Christians, we should protect the integrity of the Bible by never allowing anyone to twist or exaggerate it’s teachings. We don’t need to add to the Word of God. Bill Wiese is adding to the Scriptures. Although this may seem harmlessly beneficial to some Christians, such bizarre claims are damaging to the truth. The testimony of the rich man burning in Hell (Luke 16) doesn’t mention demonic monsters with fangs and sunken-in eyes. In fact, nothing is mentioned in the Scriptures about monsters in Hell. Believe me friend, if you die in your sins and go to Hell, monsters are going to be the last thing on your mind if your being burned alive with fire and brimstone!

    Bill Wiese claims that God is a liar!

    Mr. Wiese claims… “God took it out of my mind that I was a Christian.” What? This is deception! Why would God do such a thing and violate His own Word? The Bible declares in Titus 1:2 that God cannot lie. Eternal life is a free gift from God (Romans 5:15; 6:23). Why would Jesus Christ even pretend to take away the gift of eternal life from one which He has saved? Jesus would never pretend to be a liar. Bill Wiese would lead us to believe that God pretended to send him to Hell, breaking His promise of eternal life. Mr. Wiese claims he didn’t know why he was being tormented until afterwards. Remember, Bill Wiese claims that this was no dream; but an actual experience which he encountered. Is God a liar? No Mr. Wiese, you are the liar, not God. God would never forsake us for 23 minutes, not even for one second (Hebrews 13:5).

    Are there divine revelations today? Does God speak face-to-face with certain people? No! We read in Hebrews 1:1-2, “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son.” How does God speak to us? Through His Son, who is the Word of God (John 1:1; Revelation 19:13). Jesus is the Living Word which came down amongst men in the flesh (John 1:14; 1st Timothy 3:16). If you want to hear from God today, then you must look to the Scriptures. God doesn’t speak to any individuals today through private revelations, as He did in the Old Testament. The Word of God is complete! The Word of God plainly states in 2nd Peter 1:20, “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.” Let the Bible speak for itself. We don’t need any new revelations, and the Bible doesn’t tell us to look for them.

    I can assure you Biblically that Bill Wiese did not go to Hell. It is very important to understand that just because someone preaches the Gospel doesn’t mean that they are saved. Judas was one of Christ’s very own Apostles, but he was unsaved and had an evil heart. Judas played the part for his own personal gain. Increasingly, we are seeing false prophets exploit the Gospel for their own greedy gain and benefit. Bill Wiese is no different.

    Comment by Larry — May 29, 2009 @ 6:26 am | Reply

  16. Rachel makes a very good point when she says, “Jesus Christ died to save us from hell, not to give us a taste of it.” And then she says, “only people who die in their sins will see hell.”

    Rachel, you made a very good point, I totally agree with you.

    Comment by Larry — May 29, 2009 @ 7:24 am | Reply

  17. Matthew also makes a very good point when he says, “If people will not believe the Words of God as given in the Scriptures, why should or would they believe the fanciful words of a mere man?”

    Matthew, good point, I agree.

    Comment by Larry — May 29, 2009 @ 7:59 am | Reply

  18. Larry,

    I address some of your points in comment #7, above.

    Also, the New Testament not only teaches in many places that we are to be led by the Holy Spirit directly, but Jesus was our example in that He emptied Himself (Php. 1) to the degree that when He was on earth, He was led by the Holy Spirit too.

    See: A Call to Intimacy: The Holy Spirit in John’s Gospel & Epistles, by Jeff Fenske [D.A. Carson— Johannine Theology]

    Jeff Fenske

    Comment by Jeff Fenske — May 29, 2009 @ 11:40 pm | Reply

  19. Jeff Fenske,

    What are you trying to say according to your comment to me? Are you saying you believe Bill’s testimony? If you do, are you really going to reject what the Word of God says, and replace it with what this man has to say? It’s just like Rachel said, “people for some very strange reason want to believe this man’s story, whether it goes against the Word of God or not.”

    Larry

    Comment by Larry — May 30, 2009 @ 11:07 am | Reply

  20. Larry,

    I don’t believe Bill’s experience conflicts with the Word of God, like I explained in many words, above. Did you read what I wrote?

    Jeff

    Comment by Jeff Fenske — June 3, 2009 @ 12:47 am | Reply

  21. Jeff Fenske,

    You don’t believe Bill’s experience conflicts with the Word of God. You should read Hebrews 13:5. God says, “I WILL NEVER LEAVE THEE, NOR FORSAKE THEE.” If God actually sent Bill Wiese to Hell, He would be violating His own Words. By claiming that God sent him to Hell, and not only that, but claiming that God removed his knowledge that He was a believer, Bill Wiese clearly states to Christians that God forsook him as a Christian. God does not send born-again Christians to Hell, because He promised that He would never leave us or forsake us. And that is exactly what God did if indeed He sent Bill to Hell.

    So again, Hebrews 13:5 pretty much proves that God didn’t send Bill to Hell. If God were to send a Christian to Hell and remove his knowledge that he is a believer, God would be violating His promise of Hebrews 13:5.

    Larry

    Comment by Larry — June 23, 2009 @ 2:41 pm | Reply

  22. Larry,

    I address this in comment #7, above.

    Jeff Fenske

    Comment by Jeff Fenske — June 23, 2009 @ 4:42 pm | Reply

  23. I’ve read comment #7, and I didn’t find any evidence of you adressing this. What are you addressing?

    Comment by Larry — June 23, 2009 @ 5:35 pm | Reply

  24. Larry,

    The question is who does Hebrews 13:5 apply to? That’s what I address in comment #7 and in my Who-Goes-to-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way article.

    Hebrews 13:5 only applies to those who are Christians according to Hebrews 10:26-39, three chapters earlier.

    Not very many ‘Christians’ in America really are Christians according to what the Scripture really says, and this could have been the case for Bill, as I stated in comment #7.

    Maybe this cell in Hell is exactly where Bill would have ended up had he really died. And it’s possible that he really did die.

    It’s possible that this was a warning for Bill just as much as it’s a warning for us.

    DISCLAIMER: It’s also possible that God chose Bill to experience this simply so he could tell others, just like he chose Mary Kathryn Baxter.

    God may have hand picked Bill because he was trustworthy and right enough with God and people to go to heaven. And that, yes, He did seem to forsake Bill for those 23 minutes, which Bill says he has scripture for, in order so that Bill would experience the full brunt of what it’s like. So he can tell us how it is from first-hand knowledge.

    Wouldn’t some of you be willing to go through this if millions of people will avoid hell as a result? Most people think they’re going to heaven, but in reality, only a couple of percent are. Compare CBN’s stats with what the angels in heaven told Pastor Howard Pittman after he really did die:


    Bill Wiese talks about Hell on CBN: “He [Jesus] wept because He doesn’t want to see one person go to Hell. He didn’t make it for man…” “He mentioned that He was coming very, very soon”

    The Bible guarantees that the deception in the last days would be great. So why should we expect otherwise?

    “It’s time to wake up and smell the roses.”

    Jeff Fenske

    Comment by Jeff Fenske — June 23, 2009 @ 5:50 pm | Reply

  25. So now your saying that Bill wasn’t a Christian before His experience? Wouldn’t Jesus have told him he wasn’t really born-again later during his conversation with Jesus after his hell experience?

    Comment by Larry — June 23, 2009 @ 6:23 pm | Reply

  26. Larry,

    Millions of Americans are born-again. Being born-again is just the start. Nowhere do I indicate Bill wasn’t born-again. It seems obvious that he was and is.

    Perhaps you won’t understand where I’m coming from unless you read what the Bible really says about who goes to heaven: Who-Goes-to-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way.

    Jeff

    Comment by Jeff Fenske — June 23, 2009 @ 6:32 pm | Reply

  27. One last thing I want to address. Bill claims that he was in his bed when he was taken to hell. How did his body get from being in his bed to laying on the living room floor if he was in hell during that time.

    Comment by Larry — June 23, 2009 @ 6:53 pm | Reply

  28. Larry,

    If a person is having a severe physical experience in bed, it’s probably not uncommon to get up at some point to be able to more aptly deal with it.

    If Bill was out of his body, it could have happened at the beginning of the experience or the end — especially after the experience, when he was freaking out.

    Or if it was just a vision, if he never left his body, he could have gotten out of bed at any time during the vision.

    I should also add that the people who lose their salvation because of willful sin in Heb. 10:26-39 are born-again.

    26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which will devour the adversaries. 28 A man who disregards Moses’ law dies without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment, do you think, will he be judged worthy of, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and has counted the blood of the covenant with which he was sanctified an unholy thing, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance belongs to me,” says the Lord, “I will repay.” Again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

    32 But remember the former days, in which, after you were enlightened, you endured a great struggle with sufferings; 33 partly, being exposed to both reproaches and oppressions; and partly, becoming partakers with those who were treated so. 34 For you both had compassion on me in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your possessions, knowing that you have for yourselves a better possession and an enduring one in the heavens. 35 Therefore don’t throw away your boldness, which has a great reward. 36 For you need endurance so that, having done the will of God, you may receive the promise.

    37 “In a very little while, he who comes will come, and will not wait.

    38 But the righteous will live by faith. If he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.”

    39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the saving of the soul.

    Most ‘Christians’ are unknowingly in danger of going to hell because they are willfully sinning one or more of the sins listed in the first list in Galatians 5, which says specifically who does not inherit the kingdom of God. And the second list are those who overcome sin by the grace and empowerment of the Holy Spirit. These are those who inherit the kingdom of God.

    This is one of the many texts I cover in Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way.

    I said “unknowingly in danger of going to hell” because most churches teach the false doctrine of eternal security, once-saved-always-saved in one form or another. They’ve deceived the people. And now it looks like we’re losing our country on the fast track, since ‘Christians’ are so often no longer salt and light to this degree.

    It has been recently reported that church going ‘Christians’ to be more likely than non-church going people to believe in torturing people who didn’t even do anything to us. This is an abomination — the absolute reverse of Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount — the absolute reverse of the Second Greatest Commandment.

    With ‘Christians’ no longer being salt and light, our country has no future. Though we can overcome and be salt and light together, no matter what happens.

    Heavenly Father, may Your Kingdom come; may Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. May we be ‘ONE’ in You and with each other (Jesus’ heart-cry for us in John 17).

    Thank you for Bill Wiese’s willingness to share his experience with all of us. May we never do or think anything that would risk going to this place of horrendous torment that never stops.

    Thank you, Father, for warning us. And thank you, Bill, for helping us make sure that we are always right with You and our neighbors (even those in Iraq who need to be apologized to). May we repent and live holy. May we be people You are proud of. Not stooges who go along with the system.

    May we love everyone, no matter what they do to us, no matter what they wish to do to us. May we forgive as you did, Jesus, hanging on the cross, and as Stephen did as he was stoned to death because his light was so great.

    May we be holy — the way we are meant to be — empowered by You to overcome! No excuses anymore. Fully accepting what your Word really says; rejecting the spin that is coming at us from all directions.

    Resting in You. Your Word is truth.

    To Larry and others: God bless! May we be ‘ONE’ together, forever!!!

    Jeff Fenske

    Comment by Jeff Fenske — June 23, 2009 @ 10:11 pm | Reply

  29. Larry and others,

    I just saw Pat Robertson’s interview with Bill Wiese, which I’ve now posted. Bill says this about how he came out of the experience.

    “She prayed for about 20 minutes over me before I even realized I was back.”

    It seems that some of you are way too hard on Bill. What’s up? Are you ready — right with God and all people?

    This is serious to the max!!!

    Jeff Fenske

    Comment by Jeff Fenske — June 24, 2009 @ 2:25 am | Reply

  30. My wife bought Bill Wiese’s book “23 Minutes in Hell” a while back, and I took it to work today. I was curious. I had heard of the book before, but I had never read it. I spent my whole lunch hour reading it.

    I was floored at what I was reading.

    I believe him. I have to trust that a man who has belonged to the Lord since 1970 is telling the truth, and what he says is true and he literally experienced hell — and it is exactly as the Bible describes it. He uses Scripture throughout his book to back up his claims. My sister went to hear him speak, and she said that he was a man who could not ignore the burden that was put upon his heart, and that he knew the Bible like the back of his hand, and backed up his experience with the Word of God.

    There is so much ‘new age’ theology that wants us to kind of… Well, forget about hell. At least that has been what I have seen more often than I’d like to. It is not comfortable. It is not pleasant. But it is real, and it is where people will spend their eternal lives if they do not accept Jesus Christ.

    I know that a lot of people probably don’t believe Bill — it is, by most standards, an unbelievable story. However, are we to put God in a box and think that He can’t or won’t do such things to wake up the world? I have read some stuff online about Bill, and there is a good handful of Christians that feel he is a kook. I find that sad, because it is judging him in a way that we are not called to do. We are to use discernment in such matters, but do we do that at the cost of judging another person so harshly that we call into question their relationship with God?

    I felt deeply convicted as I read this book, and I felt deep terror. It made me think of people I love who have not accepted Christ and what awaits them after death. It made me worry for myself. I never felt the Holy Spirit telling me that this man was making this up. What I did feel was fear, which is something that I have felt lately. I feel that I am a good husband, I have a decent job, I pay my bills and I don’t break any laws. Yet, I know that I am a wretched sinner and without Christ I am nothing. I felt this fear because I know in my heart through the Holy Spirit that I have not given Christ anything.

    Proverbs 1:7 says, “FEAR OF THE LORD IS THE BEGINNING TO WISDOM.”

    Before, I was trying to be a Christian on my own terms, using God like a vending machine. Now, I see that if I don’t begin to live a life that is full of repentance and seeking Christ, I will be lost as well. My heart needs to be worked on, and I believe Christ has begun that work in me.

    I believe Bill’s book is a tool that He is using. God knows the number of His children that have come to Him through this book and Bill’s testimony. It is amazing and I commend him for sharing his experience, as horrific and dreadful that it may be. If only some of us Christians could have the same boldness for Christ and not fear that we will be offending others. Mainly I say this from my own experience, but I see it in others as well.

    My wife’s aunt was killed by a drunk driver on December 22, 2008. At her funeral, our pastor gave the sermon. It had little to do with my wife’s aunt, but it had everything to do with the Lord, as she would have wanted it that way. Before my pastor spoke, he said something very profound: The TRUTH OFFENDS some people. I remember walking out of the service and hearing my mother-in-law say that she felt he took advantage of the situation. All our pastor did was speak of the love and the beautiful gift of salvation offered to us by God through Christ. I am sure many other people felt the same way.

    The response of some people to Bill’s book is telling to me. 2,000 years ago, people did not want to believe Christ, either. Now, I am not equating Bill Wiese with Christ, so please don’t get confused. What I am saying is that most people, even us Christians, want to put God in a box. Just as Jesus wasn’t believed by the majority of people 2,000 years ago, many people are still refusing the miracles that God does today, and I find that sad.

    I am sorry about my ramble… but it is just something that has been on my heart.

    Comment by Kevin — June 24, 2009 @ 3:39 pm | Reply

  31. Kevin,

    Thank you very much for sharing what you are experiencing. There is no need to apologize. You spoke from the heart. This wasn’t a “ramble” at all.

    One of my Bible teachers used to say: ~”It’s better to fall on the Rock instead of the Rock falling on you.”

    Now is our time to get right with God and all people so we won’t have to experience this nightmare. And instead, we can spend eternity in total gloriousness with the Creator.

    We think experiences are rich here. Wait till we see heaven! And may we not do anything that will jeopardize that experience: loving the Lord, our God, with all of our heart, soul, mind and strength; and our neighbor (including the Iraqis, you all who are taught to hate) as ourselves. They are God’s children too, and deserve a chance. What in the world are we doing over there with almost total ‘church’ support.

    I’m not speaking to you here, Kevin, but to all of you who have supported President Bush’s reverse-Christianity programs, those of you who even voted for him for a second term!

    I just find that amazing. People aren’t interested in the truth on many fronts. But the truth will set us free!

    God bless you, Kevin!!!

    May we get it right.

    Jeff Fenske

    Comment by Jeff Fenske — June 24, 2009 @ 3:54 pm | Reply

  32. Amen Jeff!!! Thank you, and God bless you too.

    Comment by Kevin — June 24, 2009 @ 4:09 pm | Reply

  33. Louis you are hating on him God showed him a great experience showing him that he needs to realize that hell is not the place to go. dont be bringing scriptures and switching them around to please you so you can get the point across when you dont even know half of what your saying. so just dont say anything becuz in the end youll lose and youll have nothing in the end. Get your life straight with jesus becuz you need a one on one relationship with him (SERIOUSLY)gET your life straight with God.

    Comment by taylor — November 6, 2009 @ 11:14 am | Reply

  34. I believe Bill Wiese’s account is erroneous and possibly purposely falsified at worst (to make money and fame off of sensationalized literature). Not only are his descriptions of Hell not in accord with the most prominent Christian scholars and theologians throughout history and of our time (and what the Bible itself says and doesn’t say), but just the experience of him going to Hell and writing about it seems ridiculous.

    Comment by Crystal — November 7, 2009 @ 4:58 pm | Reply

  35. The majority of Christians in modern America do not diligently read their Bible’s anymore, which makes them easy prey for this kind of con job. His bizarre fantastic story outrightly contradicts the Bible many times. He does not even attempt to back up many of his claims from Scripture, such as deformed reptilian demons and big rats and spiders in hell. I don’t care for a made up version of hell that someone sells to gullible people who aren’t happy with what God has revealed in the Bible.

    Comment by Luke — November 17, 2009 @ 7:34 am | Reply

  36. I feel that Heaven and hell DO exist. Even if this man is a liar he is indirectly pointing the way of Salvation to be through Yeshua ( Jesus real name in Hebrew) and Our Heavenly Father Yahweh Who Loves Us All So Very much…..He Is GRIEVING for Us !! He IS warning Us so let HIM be the JUDGE. Reptilians just SO HAPPEN to be in a book about HELL…..have any of you researched about the “reptilian bloodline” or the “illuminati” or the U.F.O. “illusion” satan is planning through a government program called ” Project Blue Beam”? If you ask Me ( which you didn’t so it’s only My opinion) too many people are trying to take “short-cuts” to heaven by listening to what others say and automatically believing it. It took alot of research for me to see even a SLIVER of what I think may Be the TRUTH. I believe in Yahweh and His Son Yeshua. I believe the Bible and also I have read a good portion of the so-called “dead sea scrolls”. Yeshua mentioned books which are not in the bible and one example is the book of Jasher…..anyway’s, “SEEK AND YOU WILL FIND” “KNOCK AND THE DOOR WILL BE OPENED” ” WHOMEVER SEEKS THE LORD DILIGENTLY WILL FIND HIM” ,,,,,too much useless discussion and not enough reaching out and spreading the GOOD NEWS of SALVATION of which, even if this man IS lying, then he is inadvertantly doing Gods Will ( My Opinion ) because Yahweh uses evil for the GOOD . Well I’m wasting time here myself but one thing is for sure….The Day Of The Lord is right on the Horizon and “reality” is wayyyyyyyy more exciting than the “illusion” satan has framed around the world.

    Comment by Jacobs Valient Shield — April 26, 2010 @ 8:48 am | Reply

  37. For those of you who are making fun of Bill and don’t think hell could be that bad:

    Perhaps you should just listen to this one dog scream in total terror, and imagine what billions of humans screaming to this same degree sound like, 24/7 — no breaks, forever, no hope of it ever stopping — no way out.

    Missouri SWAT Raid 2/11/2010. Cops Shoot Pets With Children Present. They shot the one dog through the cage. The only loose dog was a Corgi.

    It behooves all of us to make sure we’re right enough with God and all people to be able to go to heaven. This is what the Bible really says about who really goes:

    Who-Goes-To-Heaven Scriptures — Narrow is the Way

    Incidentally, why do you think hardly anyone wants to study this, the most important topic, in order to totally make sure…?

    Why did Paul say “work out your salvation through fear and trembling,” and so many preachers and ‘Christians’ just totally blow this off?

    This is part of the great deception — ‘Christians’ James-3 cursing [praying — see my 'Christians' cursing people posts] that people believe their doctrines without question. And most of the people just fall into line.

    Wouldn’t you say it behooves us to absolutely make sure!

    Break out of the trance.

    Because of willful sin that opens the doors, and because demon driven people are praying (James-3-cursing) all kinds of demon-driven prayers on people, most ‘Christians’ are inhabited by demons that not only drive them to do what is forbidden, but also keep them from peacefully, in rest, researching the truth — so we can be free!

    Jeff Fenske

    Comment by Jeff Fenske — May 7, 2010 @ 12:01 am | Reply

  38. Hello! Here is some food for thought for your study on Hell and I am not able to take the time now to explain the hundreds of Scriptures that back up this theme but I will give you the site of a very thorough fellow who does an incredible job and will take you from Genesis to Revelation and explain very convincingly what the Bible teaches on death, Hell, eternal life, the 1000 year Sabbath of our Lord, the judgment of the wicked being given to the Saints, and many other topics. Here’s the teaser to get you to expand your knowledge of the Bible! There are 2 different resurrections (Righteous and Wicked) that are 1000 years apart. Do you not know that there is not a single person in Hell yet and won’t be until after the White Throne Judgments? I take that back as the Beast and the False Prophet will be thrown alive into the Lake of Fire without a trial when Jesus returns at the Resurrection/Rapture. All others will be at the trial at the end of the 1000 year Sabbath Rest of God’s people. Do you not know that the demons, fallen Angels and wicked men all have the same fate and will be judged by the Saints at the Great White Throne Judgments and that God has given judgment over to us. After the trial all the wicked (including Satan himself) will be thrown into the Lake of Fire and will be turned into ashes under our feet.

    Everything I just teased you about is very grounded in the Word and the whole Bible Harmonizes. The seemingly difficult Scripture passages that come to your mind are actually easily explained without forcing anything. Check out this Author’s work and see if your understanding of God’s word doesn’t grow in leaps and bounds! Father, I speak blessing on everyone who reads this post and may the precious Holy Spirit illumine their hearts, in Jesus mighty name. Amen. Jesus, I love you with all my heart and I love all of you seekers too!

    http://www.creation-science-prophecy.com/mikehome.htm

    John

    Comment by John — March 8, 2011 @ 2:59 pm | Reply


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